I actually checked that, and it was off. Although now I’m tempted to toggle it, play a couple of episodes, then toggle it off to see if it shakes something loose. 
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I’m starting to think that this episode was an advertisement: that Marco Arment paid for it to stop hemorrhaging users after his garbage “update.”
David Sparks said that he’s grateful for the re-write into Swift because that indicates that the app will be viable for the long-term.
… that makes no sense.
You don’t stick with an app because it uses X or Y script. You stick with it because it does what you want it to do.
This “update” made the app unusable and indicates Marco’s disregard for Overcast users.
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I know it’s how the world works, but I feel like you don’t get honest opinions when the shows/hosts are friends with one another or in the same podcasting group of pals.
Did MPU have the new owner of Castro on when they were newly acquired? Did they have someone from Automattic on when they acquired Pocket Casts?
But when their friend Marco paints himself into a corner they devote an episode to helping him right the ship.
I like MPU and Relay, but it would be nice if they weren’t so obviously helping their own at times – it feels like you don’t always get the best unbiased advice.
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I agree. It undermines the show’s credibility. I suspect that the motive here is financial—I bet Marco paid for the opportunity to justify his poor choices (and to get asked a bunch of softball questions). I don’t think the show’s hosts are being transparent about what’s going on here.
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A podcast app developer roundtable would be cool: Marco, Dustin Bluck, someone from Automattic, George Cox (Downcast.)
Marco is a good solo guest because he talks general Apple ecosystem and open podcasting ecosystem stuff well. I don’t think the others would have as much to say.
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I’d be much more interested in an episode that explores alternatives to Overcast
I feel like this is a totally baseless and unrealistic accusation. Relay and it’s hosts are not podcasting under the guise of journalism – in general, I listen to shows because I respect the hosts taste, and taste is nearly inseparable from bias.
The fact is Overcast is one of (the?) most popular independent clients and that means Marco, friend or not, will get invited on more shows.
All this coming from someone with his own bias as a longterm Castro and Overcast fan currently using Castro because I hate the Overcast update.
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As a programmer, actually, it makes quite a bit of sense to me.
Now…hear me on this.
You’re absolutely correct that “you don’t stick with an app because it uses X or Y script.” 100% correct. But if your app uses a 10-year-old code base, on an Apple platform, it’s going to disappear. Its days are numbered. Apple is marching on with the technology, and you’ll get left behind. Marco seems to have indicated that the rewrite took a year and a half - which is likely too long of a time to do when you discover your old APIs are all going away.
So the fact that Marco was doing a top-down rewrite using current technology is, IMHO, unambiguously a good thing for anybody that has enjoyed Overcast in the past, and wants it to continue into the future.
The things that aren’t good are the fact that it was half-baked when it was released, that certain features still don’t work quite correctly, and other features are still missing completely (like OPML export - at least from what I can tell). We’re still in what feels like an extended, unannounced public beta.
It’s possible to do a good thing in a bad way. That’s where I think we’re at here.
I can’t imagine either of the hosts doing anything like that.
That said, I can see them hearing that Overcast had a new version, and because he’s a “friend of the show” they thought it would be interesting to have Marco on as a guest. If the controversy was still rolling, it would be interesting that way. If it wasn’t, it would be interesting to discuss the future of podcasting.
By the time this episode was “in the can,” most of the huge bugs/issues had been squashed. Playlist sorting. Streaming. Downloading. And it’s clearly on a trajectory to having all of the bugs fixed. It’s just not quite there yet, and that’s very frustrating for the people for whom the existing bugs/issues are still a problem.
I can say that I thought David’s treatment was a touch “lighter” than I might have liked, but I don’t think it was biased. I think David and I have different podcast use cases, and his assessment is probably valid for his.
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Yeah, I cannot prove that Marco paid for this fluff piece on Overcast, but it feels suspect and makes the show less valuable to me.
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I take it back, I think you’re right. @ismh86’s Performa fund is of unknown origin. It all adds up.
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A podcast platform and app roundup would be good. I searched the archives and I think this has only happened indirectly in interview and feedback episodes. Overcast would probably be included, and for free. So you might not like it.
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Ive had 0 issues with the update… (ducks under the table). Any UI changes takes a minute for muscle memory to kick in but by and large its been good to me.
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@dario I’m no audiophile either. I rarely listen to music, and when I do, any ol’ speaker will do. I grew up in the era of cheap transistor radios—little things you held in your hand with a garbage tinny speaker—and I was happy with them.
But I routinely listen to podcasts at 1.8x, and Overcast is noticeably more clear at high speeds.
Or was. After the latest-but-one update this weekend, which broke continuous play, I decided to try Castro again. Maybe the audio for Overcast is slightly better, but if that’s the case, it’s only a slight difference.
I’m keeping an eye on Overcast development and may well come back.
Overall, I think Overcast’s new design places too high a priority on aesthetics over functionality. Yeah, it’s nice and clean and uncluttered, but that means actions like “stop at the end of the episode” and moving episodes between playlists require extra taps. Feh.
People often complained about the design of the old Overcast, but I never minded and thought those complaints were precious. The design was fine. I’m not primarily looking at the app—I’m listening to it.
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If you haven’t been involved in software development at all I can see how it would not make sense, but any software that’s been around for a few years can be come much harder to maintain.
Addressing all that “technical debt” and creating a solid, modern foundation to build new features on is absolutely an investment in the long term viability of the software. It’s not exciting stuff from a customer perspective, but it’s definitely in the customer’s interest.
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Listening to the episode it feels like an advertisement for Swift programming and rant at Apple. What ever Marco said just applies to any app being rewritten. Personally it feels like it was justification and damage control. I am still using Overcast. That wont change for now.
Its the hosts show and they can do what ever they wish. It never felt like a true MPU Podcast.
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That is pretty paranoid IMO.
I feel that I “know” David Sparks after having listened to his podcasts for years (and I actually met him once.) I think it is unimaginable that Sparks would have a guest pay to get on and not reveal that to the listeners.
CWM: your tone is unusually harsh.
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I bet Marco paid for the opportunity to justify his poor choices (and to get asked a bunch of softball questions). I don’t think the show’s hosts are being transparent about what’s going on here.
That’s flat out defamation (and Sparky was a lawyer: just saying). Making serious accusations without a shred of proof is very wrong: it does real harm and your comments are disgusting.
I went into the episode wondering what editorial line they’d take. Possibilities were:
- “represent” the vocal opinion that thinks that Marco has ruined his own app and business forever by releasing an incompetently executed and disastrously conceived update. Ask aggressive questions and give Marco a chance to be defensive.
- uncritically “celebrate” the new version and give Marco the chance to say how great it is
I was pleasantly surprised by the show. It was thoughtfully constructed: very well contextualised within the overall developments in the Apple ecosystem and podcasting, acknowledging that the roll-out had upset some users and allowing Marco to announce a couple of roll-backs and he was given the chance to make an important point: that not changing the app was not a realistic option.
But what I appreciated was that it was much more interesting than a deep dive into the Overcast app and its recent release could have been.
If the hosts were “soft” on anything, it was their obvious bias towards an open ecosystem for podcasting, including client apps, and their rejection of the somewhat predatory behaviour of some of the big players (including, to some extent, Apple). I share that bias and really, really don’t want Google, or Automattic or Apple or Spotify “owning” podcasting: may there always be space for people with a microphone making and sharing unique and interesting audio content because they want to and people making apps to help them to do it.
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That is a huge part of the reason I traded Apple Podcasts for Overcast. Overcast feels like what Apple Podcasts should be on iOS.
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It would have been impossible to find anyone to talk to who knew anything about what was going on with Castro - that was complete chaos for quite a while and though it seems to have settled down, I’ve not seen much public about who now owns it, how its being developed or what its long-term business model is.
If anything, MPU are Automattic fanboys: Day One keeps being discussed as if it is the only journalling app on the planet and there are numerous examples where Automattic has been given as an example of “good people” in the software industry (I’m not quite as convinced). Automattic are VERY unwilling to discuss things like roadmaps or wider plans for any of their revenue streams and I’ve not heard them interviewed anywhere except for the founder, very occasionally and talking the grand vision. I don’t think it would make a good episode.
There are hundreds of “let’s repeat the press release” tech podcasts and hundreds more that list apps in a space with superficial pros and cons. What I value about MPU is that it is personal: no-one is trying to sell you anything, they are chatting together and with guests about things that interest them or that they like or that they have tried for themselves. That’s obviously not going to be comprehensive or superficially objective. That’s fine, I’m not expected to agree with everything they say, though I appreciate listening in to the conversation.
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