Apple scrambles to quash iOS app sideloading demands with 'think of the children' defense

[anon85228692]

I would have understood better if you had put the emoji after the relevant sentence and not the shrug.

[anon85228692]

But how often is that actually happening?

Enough that the EFF has raised alarm. Again, please see the DF post.

[kennonb]

Noted. 20 characters.

[kennonb]

I skimmed it. Goodness that article is long.

An app’s ability to even request access to health data, or contacts, or to create a VPN, rests on App Store review. If an app says it’s a game but requests the entitlement to prompt the user for access to health data, Apple’s App Store review will reject it.

I’m not seeing this play out this way in real-life. Apple often approves many apps that are user hostile and request access to data they shouldn’t. Or they charge insane amounts of money that people don’t realize, and these apps don’t get pulled. They remain.

What I endorse is allowing apps to direct users to the web to make purchases and subscriptions. In-app purchases vs. out-app purchases. Let Apple earn its cut by showing that in-app purchases have higher conversions.

This is so tongue and cheek to me. Allow apps to redirect users to the open internet to accept payments (even though THAT could scam people out of money) because effectively it’s already happening and this will further reinforce Apple’s strong hold because people will choose to make purchases through Apple’s system. We’re seeing this very thing play out with “Sign in with Apple ID”. The difference is “Sign in with Apple ID” isn’t a money making technology.

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The goal of App Review is to ensure that apps on the App Store are trustworthy and that the information provided on an app’s App Store page accurately represents how the app works and what data it will access. We are constantly improving this process: we update and refine our tools and our methodology continuously.

The problem Apple is facing today is that it’s clear that one word in the above is inaccurate: the opening “the”. The above is a goal of the App Store — and I would argue that it remains the primary goal. But clearly the App Store serves another goal for Apple: making the company money.

This is the crux of it all for me. I feel like all of the arguments are a smoke screen for Apple’s true motives. Which, I feel, are found in the fact that the App Store makes Apple a lot of money, and they seem to be unwilling to accept that this is at odds with their arguments against user choice on their platform.

I do think that the iOS platform would be less secure, but not in any way that makes it worse than a computer today. In fact, most of the technology that Apple has baked into iOS could be adapted to allow for this alternative and still provide a level of protection that is superior to macOS. The problem is not that they can’t do it. The problem is that they don’t want to give users that choice for fear of losing that revenue stream.

Again, to each their own. I think I’ve probably said enough on this topic.

[OogieM]

@anon85228692

which is why I’ve been saying Apple users.

But my program is meant to be available for any shepherd to use for free. So YES, I DO need USERS to be able to sideload to use my programs.

@anon85228692

There’s an alternative, as you are indeed using.

I get asked any time I do a demo about whether there is an iOS version.

@ChrisUpchurch

Even if Apple allowed sideloading, would they give the kind of access to the Bluetooth stack that you need?

It appears so, I had access to a rooted phone once and was able to talk to the bluetooth stack that way. Now rooted and sideloading are not the same.

OTOH we are working on a way touse a cheap commercial bar code reader with new BaaCode in LambTracker that can read datamatrix codes instead of EID chips. All US official ear tags hav datamatrix codes as well as EID chips so that may be a way around. But then I will STILL need the sideload capability.

[macsorcery]

@anon85228692

I recommend all Apple users that are proponents of sideloading to go experiment with an Android device and see how exactly they a) like it and b) really use it.

I did and loved it. Flipped that little developer switch on my FireTV and used it until my FireTV died of old age. iOS devices should have the same developer switch. If Apple wants to be greedy and charge me $100 to flip it, I will accept that. Freedom is never a bad thing. Nobody is being forced to leave the walled garden. what I do on my device does not affect anyone else.

btw I have jailbroken and lived within the Jailbreak Realm on every iPhone I owned from the 3gs to the 8plus. Did anyone really suffer? No.

@anon85228692

You don’t carry your iMac in your pocket all day long and it’s not connected to the same extent to a whole ecosystem of devices, especially not health ones.

did my jailbreak cause you harm? I apologize.

the only security holes that ever need fixing are the ones apple creates.

[macsorcery]

@anon78316750

use Apple products because of the ecosystem alone. Tinkerers can stay on Android, thank you very much.

so nice of you to decide how I can use my device.

[anon78316750]

And vice versa…

I want my devices to be as secure and intertwined as possible. It’s as simple as that.

[anon85228692]

The intent is: you want Android’s freedom, buy Android.

I could install 4x4 suspensions on my sedan, but that’s not how the builder intended it. If I want a 4x4, I buy a 4x4.

If I wanted to side load, I’d buy Android. If I want to game, I buy Windows.

[macsorcery]

@anon78316750

And vice versa…

I want my devices to be as secure and intertwined as possible. It’s as simple as that.

nobody is telling you what to do. the freedom to flip a dev switch does not mean you have to.

[anon78316750]

As mentioned above, maybe you should use Android then.

[macsorcery]

@anon85228692

If I wanted to side load, I’d buy Android. If I want to game, I buy Windows.

soon it will be, “if I want to install mac apps that are not alliowed in the app store, I buy windows.” don’t go down this path. choose freedom.

[anon85228692]

the freedom to flip a dev switch

Which might not be as free as you think. See above.

Man, if sideloading comes to iOS (which seems likely), I really hope this thread remains available when we get to see the consequences, whatever they are, in whichever direction they go.

[macsorcery]

@anon85228692

Man, if sideloading comes to iOS (which seems likely),

Sideloading has aways been here. We jailbreak to access it. It hurt nobody.

[macsorcery]

@anon78316750

As mentioned above, maybe you should use Android then.

you aren’t really qualified to make that decision for me.

[anon85228692]

Oh come on, a little good faith here: jail breaking is not readily available to anyone, not as side loading is on Android.

You are not qualified either to decide whether iOS must have side loading if users prefer the current model. None of you gets to decide for the other.

[macsorcery]

@anon78316750

I want my devices to be as secure and intertwined as possible. It’s as simple as that.

and how has that worked out for you in the walled garden?

Unfixable Exploit Is the Latest Apple Security Upheaval

[anon85228692]

Some interesting numbers for perspective : the main Apple French info website ran a poll about side loading. 3 users out of 4 do not want any side loading, of any kind. (Several thousand votes, so a reasonable sample size, and for a specialized tech website)

Êtes-vous favorable à une concurrence de l'App Store sur iOS ?

[macsorcery]

@anon85228692

You are not qualified either to decide whether iOS must have side loading if users prefer the current model. None of you gets to decide for the other.

no one shall be forced to sideload anything. however right now users are forced to not sideload. this is wrong.

[macsorcery]

@anon85228692

Some interesting numbers for perspective : the main Apple French info website ran a poll about side loading. 3 users out of 4 do not want any side loading,

not breaking news, some people are scared of freedom.

however, the most likely reason for this result is the people they polled do not have the slightest clue as to what sideloading is.