Did I buy the wrong laptop for my daughter?

The school website does specify department by department requirements, and Mac OS or Windows 10 laptops are indicated as adequate. They spell out minimum requirements for each, and of course an M1 MBP far exceeds the minimums.

But of course, I agree that more clarity would be helpful!

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Whoa. Then it’s really not appropriate for the instructor to expect more. I realize there are computer labs, but still.

An instructor can set a higher standards on assignments as long as the department gives all students equal access to the facilities needed to support completing assignments to those higher standards.

After re-reading the starting post, I am going to delete all of my previous replies. They were reading between the lines when I was not even reading the actual lines. After a more focused re-reading, I would say that the statements given in the syllabus are well within reason. They give due notice about what does and does not work for students who have macOS rather than Windows OS. They also give students with macOS workable ways to complete their assignments to the required standards. Finally, the warning is respectable in tone.

In answer to the title question: You did not buy the wrong computer for your daughter based on the information that you had at the outset. The options given in the course syllabus are probably there because they have been found to work. Whether Windows OS computers are ultimately more solid, reliable, and easy to use day-to-day … is a story in itself.

Good sailing on this adventure, and let us know where it ultimately lands you.


JJW

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There’s probably no harm in do a real-life check of these requirements, but I give my +1 that Excel on Windows is still far superior to Excel on Mac, unfortunately.

Being stuck to a computer lab for completing assignments would not have been my favorite choice as a student. A remote desktop with enough power might well be fine, as long as your daughter has proper internet access where needed. This will not be a problem at the university or at home, but maybe when she wants to do some assignments together with friends in a cafe or somewhere else, there might be issues. Just something to keep in mind.

For working with Excel on a regular basis, one should be familiar with utilizing the keyboard, not mouse, with all the shortcuts. Switching between a Mac and Windows environment might be confusing at times (on a subconscious level), but it’s certainly doable.

I would not buy an Intel MacBook at this time. I have a 16" MBP with a 2,4 GHz 8-core i-9, but performance in my Windows VM (Parallels) still sucks compared to < 1.000 € office desktop PCs, it gets too hot with an external display attached, and I have a feeling Apple is not interested in optimizing macOS for the “old” platform anymore. (Part of what makes the new Macs feel so great is just some smarter CPU utilization strategy which (speculating!) they probably could have, at least partly, realized for Intel processors, too.)

If I were to buy a Windows laptop, I’d probably still go down the Lenovo route. Depending on your budget, you might even check out the 2nd hand market, because loads of Lenovo laptops are leased for 2 years from corporates and can then be acquired at rather reasonable prices. Just make sure the notebook is in very good condition, because you don’t want a machine that has been tortured by management consultants (too many hours, too much traveling) or investment bankers (too many hours).

I teach Excel at a university and she will be fine. We have more problems with users who use different languages than MacOS, as they cannot follow instructions. There are some differences in features (for example Pívot Charts is not fully implemented), but nothing major that will impede her learning. There are some interface differences, but a two second Google will show her where the equivalent feature is on Mac.

Most institutions also provide remote desktops (mine uses Citrix) which will allow her access to the Windows version if she needs it.

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Just to point out as well that the Excel for M1 Mac’s doesn’t run all the Excel for Mac items either and you would have to run in Rosetta - MS Help. Though this is only Power Queries at the minute as I’ve found out recently.

My view would be to get to a Windows laptop. They really aren’t that bad now, especially the Surface line.

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+1 for Citrix. I use it at work to run various programs and is really stable. Really, I don’t even notice it’s running.

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I teach an Information Computing class at our local community college, and it’s basically an Excel and Access class. While most of the class is fine with the Mac version of Excel, there are a few things we run into that Excel for Mac just can’t do. The VDI infrastructure can be extremely frustrating, depending on how its setup, but it’s how I get through those sections of the course.

Honestly, I hate to say it, but the best machine for her would probably be a PC.

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In my experience, the Citrix VDI would be fine too. For those less frequent cases where she needs full pivot tables, VBA support or other Win-only feature, the VDI option is open to her (included in the tuition fee) and locally accessible through the Citrix Desktop app for Mac. No need to physically sit in the computer lab, unless she chooses to.

The one thing to ensure is that her instance of the VDI gets provisioned with sufficient capacity for her class requirements (if the class requriements exceed the standard config). This would mainly be RAM allocation, I suspect.

Working for a huge Indian service provider, I can assure you that the IT of corporations worldwide are being run in large part through VDI services from the major vendors, Citrix being one of the common choices.

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Everything the good Doctor had to say is exactly what I would say. The Mac may be the ‘better’ computer in general but it’s not the right tool for the job here, and if the professor is telling you this, I’d go with it.

Yes, it sucks that it’s beyond the return window and just getting this info now, but can’t change that. And running a VM does not sound easy or fun.

(You could get her an Intel-based MacBook Air/Pro and run Windows via Boot Camp. Then she could still have a Mac when she’s done with this course. Just a thought.)

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I am very impressed with the VDI my employer provides me. I would pursue that option.

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Think @tjluoma and the Dr @drdrang are conceptually right and we might end up just there, but I want to challenge going there right away.

A Windows notebook is bought instantly and will solve the problem. Therefore no hurry to act now.

I still think it is possible to get the best of both worlds. Why not stick with the current solution and:

  1. try the free Citrix solution and see if it works (FWIW Citrix works well as it is just a secure RDP and the compute power sits on the virtual machine. Only need is stable internet)
  2. if it ends up not working well enough weigh the investment of a windows laptop against a Windows 365 subscription (trying that for a month only costs $40). (FWIW Windows 365 works brilliantly for me. Like a native Windows Machine on an M1 Mac and I think it won’t disappoint. The only disadvantage is you need a business Office 365 account)
  1. Alternative solutions are Azure/GCS/AWS virtual Cloud PCs (need more tech knowledge to set one up, but it might actually work out cheaper than Windows 365 if only used intermittently and not full time (PPU)) or

  2. Try Shadow (another Streaming PC in the Cloud service which can be subscribed to individually)

https://shadow.tech/en-gb/

  1. If all not works well enough throw $1000+ at a decent Windows laptop

and remember the worst thing that can happen is you get stuck with an M1 MacBook Pro!

Will be interesting to see what you end up doing…

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There’s both yes and no on this. If she starts a bunch of assignments in Pages and then gets a Windows laptop she both has to convert them and transfer the files. All the setups of folders and organisation she’s done for the semester has to be changed. We all know workflow changes can be painful, I would suggest getting it over with earlier in the semester is better than hitting a blocker in the middle of an important assignment and having to deal with stuff being on “the other machine” whenever she tries to do something as well as the added stress of an impending deadline, a hurried purchase, etc.

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Very true!

That’s why I suggested to start in Citrix and not in Pages or Excel for Mac.

In that case she would be able to port any assignments to a Windows PC in future. I would have not recommended this if a free use of a Citrix environment was not offered in this case.
My gut feel is that if it is offered it will work as Citrix environments are not cheap to run

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Wow, again, I’m so grateful to this group for all your thoughtful replies. You’ve given me lots to think about. Since my daughter is being kept busy with “welcome week” activities and orientations, I haven’t talked to her about what she wants to do, which will be a big factor as @wweber points out. So, my plan for right now, taking into consideration that she’s being inundated with information as an incoming 18 year old freshman is as follows:

  • Start with the VDI solution. It’s free, and a couple responders stated it works well. I will have her visit the University IT services to have them set it up for her.

  • As a potential backup, I have a 3-year old decommissioned Lenovo ThinkPad coming from the home office. Not a long-term solution, but if VDI doesn’t work, it will get her through the class and buy us some time to see the lay of the land. I will thoroughly check it out before giving it to her, of course.

@RosemaryOrchard This class seems to me to be an intro not only to Excel, but to the Microsoft Office suite, which the University uses. I’m happy they’re doing this, as my daughter used Google Docs all through high school and has never used Word or Excel to my knowledge. Zero chance she’s ever used or will use Pages. I’m also assuming they use OneDrive, so no matter what device she uses, her files will be accessible.

Long term (maybe next month!), there’s a good chance we’ll need to go the Windows laptop route. Before dropping the cash, I want to explore the free alternatives and make sure she is staying in her major (did I mention she’s 18?).

Thanks again, and I’ll try to update as events unfold.

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That makes me wonder if your daughter is going to run into other classes which either rely on Excel for Windows or Access (and hopefully not Publisher!! :wink: )

When I was in college (~30 years ago, somehow), the number that was frequently given was that 80% of students changed their major “at least once”. Definitely seemed to be a frequent occurrence, and I assume that is probably still true today.

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Depending on the model (Potentially a T470 or T480? These would be easily upgradeable, and a failing keyboard is also replaced quickly and cheaply.) and CPU, a 3 year old ThinkPad does not sound too bad even as a mid-term solution to be honest. :slight_smile:

Anyways, sounds like you have a good plan!

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Another thing to keep in mind is that she won’t be alone. I have noticed in recent years that in many classes at my university (except for computer science degrees) the majority of students have a Mac.

I think the Lenovo will be more than enough to run Excel.

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There is already plenty of good advice here, so I will only add one thing. It is extremely important for her to test out the Citrix VDI connection before the class starts if at all possible.

I am using an M1 MBAir; I sold my Intel-based Macs as soon as the M1 was shipping. What I found, however, is that the Citrix connection to my main workplace simply does not work. I have spend a total of about 8 hours with tech support, who have told me that the continue to have problems with M1 Macs connecting. What is especially frustrating is that I also have need to connect to two other workplaces via Citrix, and for both of those everything works just fine with no issues at all.

TL;DR: there is something weird with one of my needed Citrix hosts for work making it unable to work with M1 Macs for reasons no one seems to have figured out. Make sure that your daughter’s M1 can make all necessary connections before she gets too far into the class!

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Most college students have to take some kind of Intro to Microsoft Office class their first semester, regardless of their majors. It’s usually built around Microsoft Windows because that’s where the textbook market is. If someone wants to make some money, writing an Introduction to Microsoft Office for Mac book would be a good place to start.

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