Dumping Google beacuse of climate change deniers

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For me the problem is pushing radical and insanely expensive measures without any guarantee they will even help. And at the same time, these measures will be implemented by only some countries and will likely lead to increase in CO2 production by developing countries, because they will meet the demand (industries in western countries will lower production and\or increase prices).

In my opinion, we should concentrate on innovation. New technologies are becoming more effective and less depended on CO2 production. Measures like the Paris agreement will cost hundreds of billions and will be paid by ordinary people in one way or another. Why not invest it in innovation?

And we are already doing a lot. People are conscious of the environment, customers demand the same from companies and the companies innovate in order to meet the demand. And the trend is radically increasing. And yet some people are saying we have only few years left, millions will die, we should stops having children …

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Well perhaps you might realize by some measures, your stance is radically and insanely lethargic.

Did you live through the oil crisis in the '70s? By all accounts from some folks back then, we should have sucked all the oil out of the ground about 30 years ago. Which might have been a good thing as it is (oddly how the melody of “Isn’t it ironic” now plays in my head).

So, we will solve this somehow. Even if it is at the last minute. And even even a few coastlines have to be washed away first. And even if everything below the Mason Dixon line in the US becomes a desert first. But, we will solve this. Because that is what people eventually do - figure out that they alone have to fix the problem. And yes, innovation will be a key.

(BTW, the oil crisis was manufactured. It is only a good example of scare tactics. It is a horrible example of how to take anything serious enough to start investing in new, innovative paradigms.)

–
JJW

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My stance could be considered lethargic in case there was no better solution to implement. I presented such solution. It would be nice to actually see a public debate instead of branding the opposition as climate change deniers.

But it’s one of those topics where only one opinion is allowed in public discourse. I might have not “tasted” the oil crisis, but I lived in a socialistic country and felt first hand where it leads, when you are not allowed to challenge the official truth. Which bring me back to comrades in the Guardian :slight_smile:

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Well … that escalated quickly!

@Bernt_Mansson I hope you got some value of alternatives out of all that! :grinning:

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The solution was to invest into innovation instead of implementing extreme and expensive measures based on opinions of scientist who are not even able to quantify their research. And innovation works pretty fast. Compare cars now and before 10 years. And its pace would be just increased by the said investing. It is happening all around us. People limit plastic, meat, everything must be green. Quality of environment is important. But on the other hand, the only definitive result of implementing the Paris agreement (for example) are insane costs without any guarantee it will even work! Do you understand? Nobody knows if it will have the desired effect (especially since it will be not implemented globally by all countries). So until someone has a better idea, I am for investing into innovation and not crippling western economies.

UK is not a socialist state. But once you punish people for challenging the “official truth” (by branding them as far-right, science deniers etc.), you limit freedom of speech and since we think in words, you basically start controlling thought. And then it is not far to a socialist state, which always leads to tyranny and suffering.

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Depends on what Google services you want to replace.

I use Dropbox and iCloud (actually prefer Dropbox, but iCloud has simpler integration in many cases) rather than Drive.

Apple Photos and Lightroom rather than Google Photos.

Several good map options including Apple Maps. Google is probably still the best here, but Apple is closing the gap.

Microsoft Office 365 is a must for me, but if you can manage with the Apple iWork suite, it is free and pretty powerful.

I prefer FastMail over any other mail service I have been able to find currently.

What can I say??? YouTube is what it is and there isn’t really an option here. You either have to bite the bullet and accept it or not use it. Personally, I don’t like Google, but I suck it up here because I use YouTube a LOT.

Vimeo is similar, but they don’t have nearly the content that YouTube has.

Firefox is a pretty good browser. It’s a decent replacement for Chrome, although I think Chrome is a bit faster while Firefox is more secure. I use Safari a lot too and like it in those situations where it works for me. A few sites won’t let me use them with Safari however.

I think that covers most of the services I would recommend over Google. However I will add one other personal thought and you can take it or leave it.

I used to also try doing business only with companies that shared my world view…be it religious, social or political. However, companies are made up of people and as people change titles and responsibilities, I see the social and/or political views of these companies moving to be primarily aligned with the personal views of the CEO!

I have finally decided to back off on that plan. If I have a service or other solution that meets my needs and budget that I am otherwise happy with, I no longer am switching services when the leadership changes.

First of all it requires some effort to find a competitor who offers a comparable service at a price you can still afford. Then you have to research the CEO and leadership team to see what direction the company leans in on all of these issues. Many of them support both sides of political and social issues so they don’t alienate any potential customers. Then finally, once you do find a company you like, you have to be ready and willing to do it all over again if they change their position to one you find troubling or offensive.

Honestly, this is a difficult hassle to even go through every four years to elect a U.S. President. I just don’t have the time or energy to try to keep up with this stuff on every company I do business with.

That said, there are some really good reasons surrounding security and data privacy to avoid Google services when possible.

Anyway, that’s my “two cents” on the subject. There are a few other Google services I didn’t touch on. If you need other suggestions let me know specifically which service you want to replace and I will give you some options.

Good luck.

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My advisor used Dropbox to mark up a poster PDF I shared with him. It worked really well. You can highlight areas with boxes, then add comments, to which I could reply.
So I’m not sure exactly what functionality OP needs, but there is this :slightly_smiling_face:. Maybe start a new thread with your requirements to separate from the debate here.

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You are right about not choosing apps based on the company’s views (it’s just PR anyway).

I like to make my preferences clear first. I wanted e2ee and no subscription (while still being prepared to compromise).

After that I defined what type of apps I wanted. All aps need to work on Mac and iOS and my main apps were a database, note app, writing app and mail app.

Based on the above I use Devonthink (not e2ee but I sync it only over my wifi), Bear for notes (it is subscription and not e2ee but it can encrypt notes and it contains only url links and not files), InkDrop for writing (subscription) and Proton Mail (with Mail Mate on Mac). So I stayed out of eco systems of major corporations :slight_smile:

So it all depends on the preferences and type of apps.

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Why are you talking about healthcare and the US? Is there nothing else in your head than propaganda? Read something about the Soviet Union and its satellite states in Europe. That was socialism.

Actually, there are not many numbers in climate change research. There are a bunch of graphs and comparisons but almost no hard science. I still did not see an answear to a simple question: “By how much must we lower the CO2 production to lower the global temperature by 0,1 degree?” But they have one general answer for everything: “We must lower CO2 production or we will die and if you dont agree or ask too many questions, you are a climate change denier.” It is very similiar to questioning the authority of the Communist Party in the Soviet Union.

No one here argues that we shouldn’t care about the environment and just sit and wait. I am just saying, either show some proper research before crippling Western economies or invest the money into innovation, which we know works (and please show where I said innovation is forbidden under the Paris agreement).

Free your mind and your ass will follow :slight_smile:

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Here’s one based on science, from XKCD:

Or this one, from Ed Hawkins, a climate scientist at the University of Reading.

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Puts to bed the trope that this is something normal or cyclical.

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Quip and Airtable might be good substitutes for GSuite. I have to use Google Sheets for work and it‘s good while the iOS implementation is horrid, even with iOS 13.

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The climate is changing, always has, always will. - This sums up my knowledge of climate change.

I can understand the skepticism of some people. When I was in college scientists were warning us of the danger of climate change. Throughout the '70s governments were urged to act because climate scientists saw no end to the decades long cooling cycle that we were experiencing. As we entered the 80’s the same warnings and predictions continued, but now the cause had changed to warming.

At my age, given the accuracy of the predictions made throughout my life, I’m not counting on seeing gondolas in the canals of New York City any time soon. But what do I know? I passed on Walmart stock in 1977.

If you want to avoid heated arguments, never discuss religion, politics, or whether the toilet paper roll should go over or under. - Weird Al Yankovic

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Wait, there are people who prefer the toilet paper under? Now I’ve heard it all!!

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it would depend on whether you have a cat or not:

:wink:

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Actually, it doesn’t. The Hockey Stick model has been exposed as misleading at best and completely fraudulent at worst.

https://pjmedia.com/blog/the-death-of-the-hockey-stick/

Climate extremists want to vilify their critics and shut down free speech. That’s the larger issue. Fortunately, there are some that are willing to stand up to these thugs.

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Well, I’ve long thought about this dumb, reductive analogy, and haven’t shared it, so this seems like a good place to test it out:

The Earth is a Samsung Galaxy Note 7.

We took our Note and plugged it into a little solar panel for ~16 billion years. It took a little of that energy and stored it in little fossil-fuel battery cells.

Then we unplugged it and started using it. We loved the thing—it could do so many neat things, so we opened up all the apps. And it started using up the energy in that battery.

Sadly the Note is an imperfect system. Flaws in that system made the energy we used for our apps stick around for a little too long. That extra energy exacerbated the original flaws, making them worse, leading to more energy release and capture. Now the phone is too hot and, shoot, the heat broke other mechanisms keeping the phone safe and, oh no, it seems to have shut down, and we can’t use it anymore. ;<

You don’t need to understand or even agree with the nuances of climate science to understand how burning so much energy in a somewhat closed system in a really short period of time (geologically speaking) is going to cause problems. Big ones! Most people in this thread seem to be debating about degrees of catastrophe, which is stupid. All we need to acknowledge is that something bad is happening and we need to do what we can to mitigate that.

“Innovation” for prevention, mitigation, or adaptation are all valid responses. Either way, we can spend money now and hopefully get ahead of this, or we can wait 'til things get (even more) out of control and the Note catches on fire.

As for relevance to MPU… well, most of the consequences of climate change (regardless of degree of severity) will make it tougher to use and enjoy Apple products. Every issue is a climate issue.

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Did you read that article from whatever the “Epoch Times” is? Even if the obvious agenda can be dismissed, the only guy that matters in the story reportedly said this:

“Now, we should stay calm and ponder what is really the solution to this problem,” Taalas said. “It is not going to be the end of the world. The world is just becoming more challenging. In parts of the globe, living conditions are becoming worse, but people have survived in harsh conditions.”

You say “Climate extremists want to vilify their critics and shut down free speech”, while vilifying climate extremists and disrupting the somewhat reasonable debate here with trolling shitposts. It’s hard to engage with.

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