perhaps you might not have read many many discussions on this and other technical forum. This is NOT a one day thing, we (at least myself) just do not see any sign of someone from Apple actively working on improving the service. There is hardly any visibility on this from people outside Apple
I personally do not know whether Apple knows, acknowledges and prioritize this issue. To me, until Apple opens up for Mac, iPad os , iPhone, Apple Watch to use 3rd party cloud storage and sync, this is an essential piece in their technical infrastructure that has to be fixed
I don’t hate iCloud, I hate being powerless to fix its problems. I’ve always felt most iCloud problems could be fixed with a “Sync Now” button. But iCloud is a black box that no one outside of Apple understands.
And I don’t put data into anything unless I am 100% sure I know how to get it out if things go sideways.
True enough on the first statement, but it can be fixed. It’s just a case of will it be fixed, and when? I fully expect at some point in the future there will be a bunch of reporting with the word “Finally!” in it when iCloud gets a “sync now” button.
There are at least four different ways third party applications can use iCloud that I am aware of.
The obvious folders you see in Finder’s iCloud folder, plus Documents and Desktop if you let it.
Old school iCloud “mobile” files that are buried in MobileDocuments in your ~/Library folder that applications simply write files to in the hopes that the OS will “take care of things”.
A newer version of number 2 which is a little more modern. I think this makes status visible to the application, but they are hidden from the user somewhere in ~/Library as well.
iCloud data. This could be anything from simple configuration values to much bigger data sets, but is not “files”.
Apple’s apps may use other variations, but I would expect most would use #4 these days.
The difference between #2 and #3 was what enabled KeepIt to work (#3) while Ulysses would not (#2) when I had my 2+ year issue. As far as I could tell, #1 and #2 stopped working but #3 and #4 were fine.
I must call you on this statement, as it is misleading… Apple don’t understand it either!
That was made very obvious to me when I was trying to get my problem sorted and I got responses back from engineering that amounted to “ohhh, good question, but we don’t know”.
I don’t think the criticism is new here. Here’s one thread where we were speculating about why it’s not great from late 2021, for example.
There’s still plenty to do in iCloud Drive even if not using the quirky Desktop & Downloads sync, too. I have plenty of per-app data/documents in there. It works fine for anything you need to eventually show up everywhere, and for which you don’t need collaboration features.
So assuming I want to take my documents off iCloud drive, where is the best place to go?
I’ve used OneDrive in the past but it was super finicky about file names and it just wasn’t a super pleasant experience overall. I also no longer have my Office 365 subscription.
I’ve used Dropbox in the past but it’s super expensive and by all accounts their Mac app asks for permissions far beyond the scope of what a Mac app should ask for. I know there’s Maestral but the fact a third party app is needed kind of makes me not want to use the service.
That leaves Google Drive (I stay far away from Google whenever possible) and a host of services from smaller players that I’m not super familiar with.
I only have about 3GB of actual documents on iCloud and it’s been seamless on my Mac for about 18 months now – works fine. Between my non-issues and not knowing where to go, I’m lost I guess.
I wouldn’t leave over 3GB and no particular need in how you use the files. I have a similar amount in iCloud Drive that I just need to sync and don’t share with anyone.
I’d probably recommend Dropbox if you did have bigger needs (enough to be more annoying or more valuable than paying $10-20/mo), even though I’m not happy with the current state of the client either.
Running your own sync (Nextcloud, etc.) is also a good option, but something to work up to, IMO. I think it’s dangerous to heavily rely on those kinds of setups without understanding them well, or at least understanding your backup system well…
Apparently, if you turn off iCloud Drive, then the other stuff (such as app data syncing) gets turned off also. This was recently discussed in Under the Radar (Marco Arment and David Smith’s developer podcast). Apparently it is a problem for people who are provisioned with devices by their employers who disable iCloud Drive. All apps which use any of the various iCloud options to sync data don’t work for those people.
Therefore, I would suggest simply moving your documents out of the synced directories but leaving iCloud drive enabled. Those directories can just be left empty and you can store your files elsewhere. Of course, you can specifically disable syncing of the desktop without turning off iCloud drive, so you can still do that.
I think that applies to just about all the options, doesn’t it?
This is what I do. No point turning it off completely, because some apps use it and it’s beneficial. But you don’t put more than necessary into a leaky boat.
Putting Documents and Desktop in iCloud can be turned off separately from iCloud.
That was the source of some of my irritation: if you turn off iCloud, your Documents and Desktop are saved as an archive folder. If you only turn off Documents & Desktop in iCloud, they are just deleted
As far as syncing, SyncThing works well. It doesn’t store anything in the cloud, only syncs between devices. It’s cross platform, encrypted, etc.
If you also need storage, there are Nextcloud providers so you don’t have to set up your own server. They all seem to be in Europe, and expensive.
Linode has “easy” setups of Nextcloud servers. As I recall a small shared server is $10/mo for 50GiB. You could also use the server to run a personal website, etc.
I should also point out that Nextcloud offers more than just file sync - it also has apps for notes, tasks, working with OpenOffice, email, collaboration, etc. all through the web interface.
When I recently researched pricing for Dropbox alternatives, I found it to be among the more affordable options. E.g. Box is $10/mo for 100GiB.
I’ve used iCloud, Dropbox, and OneDrive, and Google Drive is hands down the fastest and most reliable.
Read their privacy policies. They do collect data on you when you use many of their free services but they keep it to themselves. They don’t if you are using their paid services. Google Workspace legal and compliance
I’ve decided if the U.S. Department of Defense’s (DOD) has given them Impact Level 4 (IL4) authorization my data is probably safe with them
Google Workspace is $12/month for email and 2TB storage.
Does this refer to a service such as pCloud? I’m really in the dark about all of this stuff though reading with earnest. I have a little bit of stuff there. Why is this dangerous? Thanks
Storage costs a provider money on some sort of an ongoing basis. Whether that’s a monthly payment to another provider, consistent replacement of drives in a storage array, or whatever, it costs money.
Bandwidth moving to and from their company costs them money on a monthly basis, guaranteed.
If a company has monthly bills, and is offering users a one-time fee for “lifetime” access, in order to be profitable that means the the one-time fee MUST be high enough to cover the entire lifetime of costs.
2 terabytes of storage at the cheapest utility-rate provider I’m aware of (Backblaze B2) costs $10 per month. Dropbox, Apple, and Google are all comparable to that rate, and for that matter so is PCloud if you pay monthly. So at a rate of $399 for “lifetime” 2 TB, your $399 would pay for a little over 3 years of storage.
In a situation like that, one of these things must be true:
They somehow figured out how to be a ton more profitable than Backblaze B2, Apple, Google, and Dropbox.
They aren’t planning to survive past a few years out (“lifetime” logically means “the life of the company”)
They’re intentionally running these “lifetime” subscriptions at a loss and possibly burning VC money, hoping to get acquired at some point
They’re running some sort of Ponzi scheme where they figure revenue from future customers will pay for current customers
They’ve figured out some sneaky way to monetize your data
None of those options are good for you.
There are good companies out there with solid business models. Depending on what you’re doing, Google Drive, Backblaze B2, Dropbox, OneDrive, iCloud, etc. are all good, viable options by stable companies.
I’d highly suggest you invest in one of them.
And if you’re just doing online backup, IMHO Backblaze Backup can’t be beat for the price.
(EDIT: Edited the bulleted list to not single out PCloud directly.)
Thank you for such a detailed explanation. It makes great sense. I have used Backblaze for years which includes backing up my own external hard drives. I do no collaboration, only sync between my devices. I got a “deal” on pcloud last year, so my investment isn’t great, but I really appreciate you explaining the business strategy aspect so I am more careful in the future.
With DSM7 have been incredibly happy with Photos app. The auto upload works well, and option to delete photos from phone after upload is great. It now supported private and group folders, so my wife and I each upload all photos to private are, then we move over the keepers to the shared public folders.
Of note synology released a new photos Apple TV app which is great (and supports videos we uploaded from phone). Photoprism has some cool features but the Apple TV app and ease of use gives me enough to not mess with it.
A possibility, but maybe being a ton more profitable isn’t necessary, just profitable. They’re reselling cloud storage like many other companies, and we don’t know the wholesale rates for storage, bandwidth, etc.
Lots of accusations here, without any evidence.
They’ve been around 9 years and have 16 million users.
