Fixed but How? 🤷🏼‍♂️ Jan 16 '23 Needing Serious Advice re: Losing Faith in Apple Notes

[Bmosbacker]

I agree with you regarding Apple. I don’t understand why a company as large and profitable as Apple struggles with syncing. Surely its scale of storage and syncing needs can’t be as large as Microsoft or Amazon, but of course, I don’t that.

I like Things and it integrates well with Craft. A few things in Things bother me:

• No saved perspectives/searches
• Can’t check off repeating items early.
• Limited ability to nest projects and tasks
• No location based reminders

On a feature scale of 1-10, I’d place Reminders and Things nearly at par at around 5-7, each has something the other doesn’t, and OF at 9-10.

As to Craft, I’m impressed with its development. I have two reasons for not dumping my research and PKM related notes into Craft:

• I have a lot of PDFs in my research folder. I’m concerned about hitting the 50 GB limit for the Personal Pro account.
• I can’t access those files outside of Craft.

There is an external storage option, which I have not tried so I’m not sure exactly how it would work from within Craft. I think I’ll give it a try by adding one of my Obsidian Vaults to see what happens.

UPDATE: Using an external folder in Craft is not like using one in other apps. Basically, you are just creating an external location for storing documents residing within Craft. You cannot access files residing in the Craft external folder unless they are in Craft as a document. Basically, you are storing Craft documents on your computer rather than Craft’s servers. This may save on the storage used (I’m not completely sure). Moreover, any file created in Craft in the external storage space can’t be opened outside of Craft unless the app can open Json files. Bottomline, this would not be useful to me.

[AppleGuy]

Yeah. I tried Craft a while back. Didn’t love the editor/blocks for one, but the way it stored the data didn’t work for me.

I set up local folders and created some test notes. Sure enough, they sync to my computer and show up as (I believe) markdown files, but the names assigned to the files are complete jibberish. A note I called “Test 1” would show in Finder as “AHDD3SDFR3454.md”.

[d.asinDavid]

I remembered that in this Learn OmniFocus video Leah talks about how she uses Shortcuts to move tasks from Obsidian to OmniFocus. It starts at the 28 minute mark.

[Bmosbacker]

Thanks. I’ll take a look!

[rlivingston]

@Bmosbacker

And while I was out on my run today the obvious struck me, “why am I concerned about a $40/year subscription for a high quality writing app? That is about the cost of one meal at a modest restaurant.” Duh.

Both Ulysses and Craft are part of the SetApp subscription.

[nationalinterest]

I’m currently using Obsidian for notes and writing, although I rely on iCloud for sync). I do like Ulysses, though, and am unsure which to use long term and regularly switch between them! There’s something I feel is a little clunky for meeting notes, although its ability to use external folders (eg in DevonThink) is useful.

Upnote is a great, inexpensive app for notetaking, including embedded files and wiki linking between notes. It uses Google’s infrastructure for syncing and is lightning fast and reliable in my limited experience.

[fuzzygel]

@nationalinterest

Upnote is a great, inexpensive app for notetaking, including embedded files and wiki linking between notes. It uses Google’s infrastructure for syncing and is lightning fast and reliable in my limited experience.

• 1 to upnote, it is almost my Evernote replacement (except the web clipper). The syncing speed is really amazing

[Mathew_T_Mitchell]

Yes to UpNote. All notes are in UpNote for me now. “Proper” writing is in Nota or iA Writer (they share the same folder of MD files).

In fact, I now do all my project planning in UpNote. (My “projects” are simple: courses I’m teaching … so it won’t scale well at all to proper complicated projects.) In addition to what’s already been mentioned, I fully take advantage of collapsible sections and colorizing them. This means it’s super easy to see/hide days of the week (each day is a different color collapsible section). Combined with checklist capability I also have a simple, but effective, project planner organized by week.

The syncing between 2 computers, phone, and iPad is the most reliable syncing I have.

[Rob_Polding]

I tried many times to use Notes for work, and sync issues always started as my notes and folder structure became more complex. Since using it only for personal and family notes, I’ve had no sync issues. I think it’s more designed for home users who change notes occasionally rather than work use when you use it constantly for meetings and other notes.

I’ve ended up going back to Drafts + DEVONthink for all work notes and files. I love using Drafts to capture on all my devices (especially the watch) and find it the best markdown editor for taking notes. I also like that I can bulk-import multiple drafts at once into DT and then file them accordingly. I chose DT because I can drop any file type there, and the search is phenomenal. Plus, all my notes are still in Markdown, and I don’t worry about getting files out as I think DT is the best in class for easy export. I prefer to import, and I make several backups of the data, and on iOS I have no issues opening in place with any app I need.

I tried Obsidian but found the search to be nowhere near as good - it wouldn’t find text in my notes (which I could see when I open the note) a few times - plus it only indexed notes and not multiple file types, which I need for work.

[iPersuade]

@Bmosbacker

First, I am going to do all of my writing–short, long-form, and book in Ulysses.

I did the same kind of thing, except I ended up with Scrivener. I have one home for all my writing, which can then be exported anywhere I need it to be exported. I have zero time wasted to think about what app I’m going to use to write X and where I have to look for it.

I use Apple Notes principally for what I consider to be ephemera and things “to be processed” into some other app (which I suppose is still ephemera). All my other notes and knowledge have dedicated homes: Zotero: OmniFocus; Paprika; Logos; Banktivity; my litigation apps (TrialPad, DocReviewPad, TranscriptPad, etc.); and the file system(!).

[Bmosbacker]

@iPersuade

I did the same kind of thing, except I ended up with Scrivener.

I like Scrivener but not Dropbox. Since I had to nuke and pave the MBP per Apple tech., I decided not to gum up the OS with DropBox. Ulysses fits the bill and at $40/year, that seems like a bargain.

[Darkwing]

Newbie poster here, but have been watching from the sidelines for some time, and have been interested in your journey @Bmosbacker!

TLDR:
Your requirements seem very similar to mine (notes portability, integration between notes app and task management app, simplicity, reliable syncing, searchability). Based on the above, I have landed on and would recommend the following:

• Task management: OmniFocus (you already have and know how to use it, plus it has reliable sync)
• Notes & PKM: Craft (you’ve used it in the past, it integrates well with OF and Things 3, and has reliable and fast sync to all devices)
• Filing, research, PDF management: Notebooks (https://www.notebooksapp.com)

All 3 of the above are also available (although for some in web app form only) for Windows if you have to use Windows for work.

The long version:

• Task management: I started with GTD back in ~2005 and although I haven’t applied it rigorously, it has strongly influenced my task management practices since then. Back then choices were limited, and I worked in a locked-down corporate Windows environment so was largely limited to web apps. Over the years I’ve used Remember The Milk, TickTick, Todoist, Toodledo, Things 3, Wunderlist, and Microsoft ToDo (plus others that I can’t recall now). 18 months back I moved to a Mac as my daily driver and for the first time was able to consider OmniFocus. However, I was put off by the high cost until more recently when my more demanding job requirements could no longer be met by Todoist or Things 3. I love Things 3, but I haven’t found a system as powerful as OF when it comes to depth of project/folder hierarchy as well as it’s powerful perspectives. When I was using Things 3 I worked around this by making extensive use of labels, and then creating custom Shortcuts which opened Things 3 into label-filtered and/or search views. However I soon reached the limits of this workaround as my work role changed over the last 6 months.

• Notes & PKM: I was a long-time Evernote user way back in their first few years but moved away due to data lock-in and its pricey subscriptions. Since then I have used (just about) every notes app out there (plain text editors with Markdown, OneNote’s various permutations, Simplenote, Joplin, Inkdrop, Notion, and more recently Obsidian and Logseq). I also tried to use Apple Notes a few times but it never stuck.

Six months back I moved from Obsidian (enjoyed the app but it was too much of a distraction tinkering with all the plugins, and also found the Electron app too frustrating on iPhone) to Craft for meeting notes, project notes and general PKM. Craft has reasonably good export functionality so I don’t feel too concerned about lock-in. Craft not only looks good, but also had a great set of features, supports Markdown shortcuts, backlinking, daily notes etc. The only frustration is some copy-and-paste idiosyncracies which I can overcome with Markdown copy/export.

Where Craft is not great is the storage of files such as PDF’s, Word docs, etc. It certainly CAN store them, but they are not searchable or easily accessible from the file system. I considered something like DevonThink or EagleFiler, but was put off by the cost, as well as lack of decent mobile apps.

I eventually settled on Notebooks (https://www.notebooksapp.com) as it simply sits on top of a folder of files, and supports editing of plain text, markdown, and formatted WYSIWYG notes (HTML files) - it can also very quickly convert between these formats. Wiki-style linking (incl backlinks) is also supported for these notes. It supports viewing and indexing of just about every other file type and can sync via iCloud or Dropbox (plus other cloud providers if just between desktops). Yesterday I was making some book notes in Mindnode, and was amazed that Notebooks could even preview the mindmap (having stored the MindNode file inside Notebooks folder). I’m surprised Notebooks doesn’t get mentioned more frequently in this forum as it seems to fill the gap nicely for those who don’t require a more “serious” app like DevonThink, but need more than just files in a folder. It has very good-looking, feature-rich, native apps for MacOS, iOS, iPadOS as well as Windows. The apps have also been under active development for over 12 years, so I don’t think it’s at risk of being abandoned unless I’m very much mistaken.

Apologies for the long ramble, but hopefully my experiences will support your choices and not muddy the waters. Good luck and keep us posted!

[ibuys]

@Darkwing

I’m surprised Notebooks doesn’t get mentioned more frequently in this forum as it seems to fill the gap nicely for those who don’t require a more “serious” app like DevonThink, but need more than just files in a folder. It has very good-looking, feature-rich, native apps for MacOS, iOS, iPadOS as well as Windows. The apps have also been under active development for over 12 years, so I don’t think it’s at risk of being abandoned unless I’m very much mistaken.

I had forgotten all about Notebooks, thanks for bringing it back up! I just downloaded it and so far I’m impressed.Seems to check all the boxes.

[pantulis]

@ibuys

I had forgotten all about Notebooks, thanks for bringing it back up! I just downloaded it and so far I’m impressed.Seems to check all the boxes.

I think the developer does a stellar job as a programmer, but fails in the marketing department. Notebooks is a hidden gem.

[Bmosbacker]

@Darkwing Thank you for such a helpful and thorough response. As I read through your post I realized I’d landed at the same place having gone through essentially the same journey. Years ago I also used EN extensively-even for task management. I can relate to everything you wrote.

In fact, I’d settled on exactly your recommendations a couple of days ago as reflected in the screenshot below.

I had not checked out Notebooks. I read through the homepage and it looks impressive.

I have one question, is there a way to select a list of tasks in Notebook and have them sent to OF with a link? I can do this in Craft.

As to DEVONThink, I’m not sure what to do. I have it and know how to use many of its features but the mobile app is a pain to use. NP may be the ticket.

Thanks again for the great advice.

I’m a bit embarrassed in a way. I have come 180 degrees over the last year. I devoted a lot of time to mastering the use of the default apps and wrote a lot about doing so on this forum. I believe I pushed those apps to the limit. But, at the end of the day, the unreliable syncing of Apple Notes (I should add that all of the other apps sync reliably—Mail, Calendar, Reminders) forced me to make a change. I have wasted too much time dealing with the syncing issue—which as of this post is still unresolved. This is unacceptable, especially considering that I only have 1,062 notes.

So, with a major mea culpa, I’m going to eat crow and revert back to primarily using third-party apps. My sincerest apologies to all on this forum if any of my posts have led you down the wrong path.

[AppleGuy]

I wouldn’t worry about it. It’s the journey that we can all learn from and you’re certainly not the only person to change course — myself included.

For what it’s worth, I’ve switched to Apple Notes a few times this year. Every time I do I get an uneasy feeling about data portability, no note versioning, and I go back to EN. Your recent experience has taken a lot of the second guessing out of my decision to stay with Evernote/Obsidian. So you’ve helped me for sure in recognizing third party apps can (and do?) tend to lean to the slightly more reliable side. Plus I think they come with a bit more tech support (with Apple you’re more a number), and they’re less of a closed box. Easier to get help and seek the help of others who can provide more of an answer than “iCloud syncing is weird”.

[ibuys]

As for Notebooks… am I missing something or is there no way to search through everything? Looks like you can only search in one open document at a time?

[ibuys]

@Bmosbacker

So, with a major mea culpa, I’m going to eat crow and revert back to primarily using third-party apps. My sincerest apologies to all on this forum if any of my posts have led you down the wrong path.

You are definitely among friends here. We’ve all been there. Well I have anyway.

[Pupsino]

@Bmosbacker i can see you’ve made a decision on what to do, but I thought I would back up what a couple of other folk have said and mention NotePlan. My main issue with task managers - and something it took me much of this year to finally figure out (and you helped with that, so thank you!), is that I work best if my notes and my tasks are together. I didn’t understand this for a long time and didn’t understand why I couldn’t get task managers to suit my way of working (this bruised my ego since I consider myself an organised person and also I do not have a complicated job!).

From all you post, you seem to work much the same way, so would perhaps benefit from a system where the notes and tasks can sit together. Obsidian does offer that and I started building a system, but stopped when I figured it was easier to just pay NotePlan for an app already set up for that. I’ve had little friction since I switched to NotePlan, after almost a year of switching apps regularly as I tried to find something that worked.

I do keep “proper” lists in NotePlan, but I do also have project notes that have meeting minutes and tasks embedded in them. I love this - the tasks are where they need to be. The app has parity across MacOS and iOS (or near parity). And I index my NotePlan folder in DT so that I can find all my notes via DT as well. (I actually archive project notes from NotePlan to DT occasionally and keep only active project notes in the NotePlan app, but that’s a personal choice.)

The app has a folder structure for storing notes, which it’s worth setting up if you plan to add a lot of notes. And it’s worth reading the manual. I don’t always bother (life is short, etc.) but filter views are really handy as they can scan all open tasks regardless of note location, so eg if you added a task to notes on a call and then forgot about it, a regular review of all open tasks would pick this up. I like doing this to find tasks I randomly added to project notes and then wiped from my mind.

Also, since these things matter, worth noting the NotePlan editor is a DELIGHT, especially once you’ve set your theme up to your preferences. It’s not built to be a markdown WYSIWYG editor, but honestly they could sell their editor just as an editor and I’d buy it

[Pupsino]

I feel I should add that I still use Apple Notes. I’m lazy and it’s just so quick to add a temporary note on something. It doesn’t store any “permanent” notes, just stuff I’d scribble in a pocketbook so I don’t forget. E.g. I have a pinned note where I add items I need to buy from the supermarket. Having said that, I noticed there are almost 400 notes in there this morning and I really ought to have a tidy up! To me Apple Notes is the equivalent of scraps of paper and not intended for permanent storage.

I still have scraps of paper with notes on them too though, that paperless office dream of yesteryear really never arrived