Hyperkey question

Not using the Caps Lock key is something only non accentuated languages can do. I literally need it all the time for accented caps in French. I suspect many other languages face the same issue. The hyper key is a very English-centric trick.

… unless it can be mapped in conjunction to a shortcut :smiley:

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Can you explain what the issue is?
My only use of accented capitals is to write someone’s name, Éclair, and I hold the shift and E key, then tap 2 to get the accent. Which would be terrible if it was my native language.

I don’t have a non-English keyboard (well, I use the combined English/Thai one so caps is not an issue), so I’m curious.

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To get accented capitals, let’s say É, the easier way on Mac is to turn caps lock on then press 2 (which is also é) and turn it off again. Same goes for the innumerable French diacritics (È, À, Ç and so on). That means I’m using the caps lock key hundreds of times per day (and I yell at my HomePod whenever a tech podcaster says, talking about the caps lock key, « bah, it has no use ». Guys, there’s a world out there beyond English).

Honestly, it’s not great, but the Mac is still vastly superior to Windows in that regard where you don’t have such an easy way to do so. (I used to learn the character codes to achieve the same results: alt + 201, alt + 199… also for «, » and so on which are not easily accessible either on the Windows French layout. Madness.)

Sorry in advance if this sounds ignorant, genuinely curious.

I watched this video and it uses alt key, followed by specific accent key then the character. I tested and it works êéè. I tried disabling my capslock to hyper modifier and try using capslock instead of alt and it does not work. I also tried changing my keyboard type to ISO (European), but capslock still not work as accent trigger.

How can you make capslock to trigger accent?

No worries, I get that’s it’s not that intuitive especially with an unfamiliar language :slightly_smiling_face: I don’t trigger the accent, I type the accented letter directly. The French layout has those directly accessible on secondary keys (é, è, à, ç - circonflex accents and trémas, ê / ë, are yet different cases). Switching to caps lock, then typing that exact key, gives you the accented letter directly, which is why it’s so important to keep it accessible and avoid binding it to anything. :slightly_smiling_face:

On that matter, Markdown is yet another thing that betrays its English origins. Asterisks and brackets are not as straightforward to type on other keyboard layouts and if you see foreign speakers who prefer to type cmd-B for bold, for instance, it might be that it’s faster to type on their layout than double asterisks. I do not think John Gruber ever took that into account when introducing Markdown.

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It’s like the touchbar designers who at first argued people don’t need an escape key. :flushed: Some of us don’t go five minutes at a keyboard without needing to escape out of something.

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Not sure why this would be the case. Example: É or À are simply a matter of hitting the accent and then ⇧E or ⇧A.

I write in languages that use diacritical marks all the time (Portuguese, Greek, German, Spanish and so on) and I never really needed the caps lock key to do so :slight_smile:

Now that you said about layout, I just realized that French keyboard uses AZERTY by default, and number row will be <&é"'(§è!çà)- if pressed without Shift⇧ key. Thanks for the explanation!

If that’s the case and you still want to try Hyper key, you might be able to make Caps Lock as Hyper if hold, and still act as Caps Lock if pressed individually

EDIT: here is the Karabiner Elements snippet if you want to try Hyper Key when pressed with other key, otherwise act as Caps Lock. I tested with AZERTY layout and it works. Use the steps I wrote above.

Snippet for Karabiner Elements, Caps Lock to Caps Lock/Hyper
{
  "title": "Caps Lock key to Caps Lock/Hyper",
  "rules": [
    {
      "description": "Caps Lock to Caps Lock/Hyper",
      "manipulators": [
        {
          "type": "basic",
          "from": {
            "key_code": "caps_lock",
            "modifiers": {
              "optional": [
                "any"
              ]
            }
          },
          "to": [
            {
              "key_code": "right_shift",
              "modifiers": [
                "right_command",
                "right_control",
                "right_option"
              ]
            }
          ],
          "to_if_alone": [
            {
              "key_code": "caps_lock"
            }
          ]
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}

That’s what I thought originally.
It might be the case of QWERTY-AZERTY layout, or KillerWhale have used that specific layout for years. It’s quite hard and unproductive to learn new layout, also personal preferences matter.

I uses Vim to make a living and I often press Escape⎋ or jk after I write anywhere else :rofl: Old habits die hard

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Yessss well, you would need the accent there. Indeed, the grave accent exists (which is another pain in Markdown for code blocks, in passing), but all the accents that we need do not exist on the French Mac keyboard layout. I also need É and Ç, and there are no accessible acute accents (in a reasonable manner, at least – shift-option-& is not a great option) nor cedillas (at all) there. So it’s easier to just use the caps lock and hit the key you would normally hit while writing, since everything cannot be composed readily. (It’s funny that I can write ñ more easily on my French layout, which does not exist in the language, than Ç which I use all the time, for which there’s no option.)

@ybbond , you’re the best! Thanks a bunch for that script. That could be a real great help. (Indeed, the AZERTY keyboard does not use numbers on the top row – another pain with keyboard shortcuts :sweat_smile:)
You rock! And thank you so much for putting the time and effort to understand this (rather stupid) problem. :+1:

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You’re welcome :smiley:
To me, it’s not stupid at all. Just one of interesting cases where Computer Science and Linguistic world collide.

A follow up information, if you haven’t use Karabiner Elements but already using BetterTouchTool, you can prevent installing more apps and use BTT’s hyper key modification instead. See the official docs on folivora.ai that already mentioned above.

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Thank you again! I have used Karabiner Elements but I find it messes up my MX Keys with Xcode, so I’ll probably go the BTT route, that’s great to have that alternative.

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Oh, I see. A suggestion then: try the Portuguese or the USA International - PC! You will have everything in the exact same place (I am using a mac with a standard american keyboard) and all the accents will work as they should (including the ç which you can input by typing ' + c).

Using this keyboard layout I can type in pt, eng, fr, es without ever switching layouts (I only switch when I need to type in Greek).

I think it is worth a try :wink:

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Huh. (Color me intrigued! :smiley:)
Thanks for the tip, indeed, that’s definitely worth digging into! Especially as I type in English a lot as well, could make my life a lot easier!

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Looking at Input Sources, I see that the Canadian French layout seems to be a hybrid:

  • numbers are unshifted
  • shifted numbers are the standard English symbols
  • accent keys (including ç) are unshifted and replace / \ [ ]. e.g. unshifted \ (on a UK keyboard, left of the Return key) is è, shifted \ is È.
  • alt/opt adds the missing punctuation (e.g. on this keyboard opt-è gives \ )

That solves a few problems, I think, but the rest of the layout is QUERTY rather than AZERTY and that may be an issue of course. But at least you can then use Caps Lock for Control and Escape as nature intended… :wink:

(BTW, in case anyone isn’t aware, you don’t need to install these layouts to check their modifiers – e.g. if you select ‘Canadian French CSA’ in System Preferences > Input Sources’ and press shift, opt, shift-opt, ctrl, the picture of the layout changes. I’ve been using Macs since 2004 and I didn’t know that till this afternoon…)

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let me know how you go with that. I am using MX Keys and Karabiner as well and face a similar challenge of remapped MX functions…

Now use Caps Lock > Hyperkey and SHIFT/Caps Lock > Caps Lock profiles in Karabiner.

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Caution for a probable major change in keyboard shortcuts for Monterey. As I understand it may affect your layout.

https://mjtsai.com/blog/2021/06/17/macos-12-localized-keyboard-shortcuts/

It’s up to the developer to use this new feature or not, and you may need to relearn some shortcuts or modify them using KM/KE/BTT.