Mac Average Users? Some contentious thoughts on the show

Yeah it’s a crop from a panorama

I know, I just couldn’t help ribbing you just a little. :slight_smile:

MPU has succeeded in its continuing mission to make its most faithful listeners Mac and iOS power users. Along with that comes some dissatisfaction from those users as they want to grow beyond the show. To me it seems unresolvable but not really a problem.

Edit: to clarify, some dissatisfaction from some of those users. Not all.

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Thank you for bringing Noteplan to my attention. Never heard of them before and I thought I was well informed :slight_smile:

It looks very good. Starting with the iOS version.

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Interesting post. I somewhat agree.

I will say that I miss Katie. She provided good contrasting views and questioned @MacSparky spending. I enjoyed that :slight_smile:

@ismh is great too.

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I also have been a long time listener, and like Mitch, it is on my Sunday schedule. But I also have to agree with the OP somewhat. My issue is not only do the same developers and topics get covered, but also almost every episode is done at a very shallow level. If this was a podcast marketed to beginners, it would be appropriate. But to state it is for Power Users, and hardly ever get beyond the Table of Contents on a subject is disheartening.

I also miss Katie as she provided some contrast and productive friction with David. Nothing against Stephen, but it sounds like I am listening to 2 people with the same voice.

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Ironic that this thread started on a day when the next episode came out called “The Best Listeners”.

Speaking a genuine & thoughtful critique does not make one a “Bad Listener” of course. If people didn’t care about the show, they’d just stop listening.

I listen as soon as MPU hits my feed. I listened to the Apple Watch episode even though I don’t have an Apple Watch.

I suspect there are a number of “culprits” which might contribute to this feeling towards the show:

  1. There are not a whole lot of new Mac apps showing up these days. As discussed on a recent episode of Connected Apple hasn’t awarded an Apple Design Award to a Mac app in several years, and I doubt most of us could think of the last new Mac app that we might nominate for such an honor. The recent note taking apps such as Notion and Roam are (from what I understand) more like web apps than Mac apps.

  2. There is a huge back-catalog of shows that have covered some of the best Mac apps. I suspect it would be hard to do a deep-dive episode into 1Password, for example, not because there aren’t plenty of power-user features there, but because it has already “been done”.

  3. The general categories, such as notes apps, have a ton of apps, but how many of them have a ‘pro-level’ features? DevonThink. BBEdit. Drafts. TextMate (Is that still a thing?). Most of the rest are, ISTM, in the category of “We wrote this app which is a notes app with these 2-3 cool, specific features.” Again, hard to do an entire episode on one of those, because they don’t have a lot to say about them.

I would love to have more episodes where I went from not knowing much about the subject to learning a lot about the subject… I would love more episodes where I felt like “Oh, I knew that app existed, but now I really know how to get the most out of that app.”

But here’s the rub: what are those apps that I don’t know about or that haven’t been covered?

I suspect there just are not that many apps out there which need, or could even provide, a full MPU examination, which haven’t already been covered.

I feel like I can somewhat relate to what the O.P. was saying, but I also don’t know that there’s content out there to provide what we’d really like to see.

FWIW.

p.s. - I use and like Tot a lot, especially since Drafts has gotten more complex and feels like a place where more happens than just “Jotting something down.” I have a couple notes that I use for things I need to reference like once a week, and then a couple others that are usually time-specific (RMA information about a hard drive I returned, for example). Then a couple empty ones. I find it works really well for me. (Which is more than I could say for Vesper :wink: .)

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I sort of agree with the thread. I still listen to every episode but i know some power users who have quit the podcast for the lack of power user discussions.

It’s a challenge for sure and most would be unable to dive deep into every subject.

Perhaps more guests who could dive deeper into topics including topics mentioned like ZORN.

Great discussion!!!

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I am thankful for this forum because it really is a wealth of information and a solid community.

I would agree with most of what OP said, and for me it was highlighted when talking about Evernote. It was mentioned there wasn’t a robust community like there is for some other apps, and I don’t find that to be true. What that signaled to me is there wasn’t much research. We are stuck in what we know. That’s the rut. We need some spice in the podcast room lol.

The gold is in seeing the differences sometimes, like when Stephen uses and runs off of Google and Todoist, or when David is on the betas.

Part of this I’m sure is coalescing around similar voices on my feed, which is why I haven’t kept any others around really.

P.S. is there a Drafts episode planned, or did so miss one? I would love to hear about some of the advanced features and how people are using scripting.

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Every mention of Tot on Relay podcasts has been, to me, a joke. Like - “There’s this other app, Tot” to which another host replies “Not that again.” The one exception was this notes episode you mentioned, which was the first time I’ve actually heard about the actual use of Tot.

The other obvious point is that the longer you listen to the same 2 or 3 hosts over time, the more likely that you have learned along the way and have less to learn from them now. David and Katie were always pretty stable in their recommendations, changing over large amounts of time, not overnight. Stephen is the same. While I’m sure they would love to give exciting new information for the most power users, sometimes there isn’t something new for us to learn or reinvent from the topic they are discussing. That’s okay. After listening to the notes episode, I actually realized my notes needs were pretty basic and I was spending too much time trying to make a more complex app like GoodNotes work for my needs - I went back to using Apple Notes for all of my note needs. I also found a specific use for Drafts that makes it work for my needs. So this power user found a way to simply my work to something that might be more of an “average user” workflow.

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I used Tot (free) on the Mac extensively for a few weeks, but decided I preferred to just configure a hotkey to launch Drafts instead. The Mac Tot app is nice, and clever, but for temporary notes Drafts offers more (though less prettily), and the pricing on the iOS Tot app is absurd.

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The thing that has always impressed me is how much energy @MacSparky has WRT this community. I’ve been listening since he had two daughters at home. I remember when I had two daughters at home and it was a lot of work! And yet David found fime to do two podcasts, write books, be a lawyer, test beta’s, and still be a dad! I haven’t listened to @ismh nearly as much but he sounds like the same kinda person. I have to admire people with that much energy and enthusiasm. And I have to believe they have things to teach me.

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As an update.

Noteplan is also on Setapp. This is a good bonus. It appears the iOS app isn’t included but at least do not have to pay for the Mac app.

Something like Hammerspoon comes to mind. Extremly powerful. And something I haven’t even heard getting mentioned on MPU once.

An episode on Homebrew and/or Macports would be another example. Not a single mention so far, AFAIK.

Or what about how to get the best out of the several video conferencing applications (Zoom, Teams, Webex)?

Just some things that came to my mind while going through my list of installed application. But hey, maybe that’s because I look further than just TextExpander, Keyboard Maestro and OmniFocus (and I don’t call the devs of these app “my friends” either :wink: ).

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It depends I would say. Of course, my initial guerilla marketing campaign comment was overblown but I wanted to make the point that this app gets more coverage within the Relay-Macstories universe than one could expect, considering what it is. Part of this surely is related to me reading and listening to a lot of content from both, Relay and MS. However, the other part of the story might be what @Jeremy has written: a lack of research. I understand why there (sometimes) is a lack of research. As a researcher, PhD candidate and blogger myself I only have the time to test out new apps when I include them into my „work workflow“ - no time for just playing around for a couple of hours. And I would guess it is pretty much the same for Stephen and David considering all their responsibilities. However, this might lead to a situation I criticized in my initial post in which some of us have the feeling that many discussions on MPU barely scratch the surface or that some apps get endorsements over and over again while others are not even mentioned.

To add some practical value to my post: Noted is a great app, especially for meeting minutes because it records what is being said and merges your notes with time stamps of the audio for easy playback. A real game-changer for me in this specific use case.

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Two people I’ve met and spoken to - @ismh once and @MacSparky twice - in London. I feel they’re very much on my wavelength and I love listening to their show - whatever the level of the content.

What more could I want in a show and a community?

(Same applies, of course, to @RosemaryOrchard - whom I met on the same occasions.)

Sometimes I wish the content was just a little deeper, but that’s OK as I can research for myself. Most of the time it’s spot on - to the point of costing me money. :slight_smile:

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I don’t understand why everyone is having fun of vesper; I prefer the classic version, but nonetheless… :wink:

I do agree. And add that after being a “power user” for sometime, you learn (not only from MPU, but from a lot of other sources) and have less to learn in absolute. And since the show is not super specific on a particular niche it’s normal to find it sometimes more average than power.

Anyway, I still find it interesting and relevant, and thus I still listen to it.

And the forum is a valuable “add-on” to the show; it allows to delve deeper and be more comprehensive on a lot of topics (I know it is almost completely user activity on the forum, but still is made possible by MPU money)

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To be fair, as that’s an automation tool it might make more sense to be talking about it on the Automators podcast. Although even there, somebody would have to be interested in (most likely) learning a new programming language (Lua) to be able to make it do anything, or find a guest expert who uses it extensively.

And to a larger point, I feel like that’s one of the things that’s now “missing” from MPU - the stuff that went over to Automators. Which makes a lot of sense, but it changes the show somewhat. :slight_smile:

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I think an issue is the increased workload of David. Previously he had to only do one Podcast now that is up to 3. I have personally stopped listening to The Automators because it is totally the wrong format. It was too frustrating to try to learn various coding verbally. This really should be a YouTube video show with screencasts.

Exploring all the new innovations in softwares takes a great deal of time of which is now divided among various endeavors so it looks like the focus is on old reliables.

I think the real MPU spirit is within the MPU community here and I am gaining a wealth of knowledge from its membership while hopefully trying to contribute some back to the community.

We all have the same 24 hours in a day and only can be so productive. I still enjoy MPU and use the MPU forum to augment my Apple a Day addiction.

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