Where did you get those little key pips? I’m DVORAK so having some to add in the proper spot means I can arrange the keys and still find the proper position by feel.
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He linked to a pen that can make them. The link is in a paragraph of text, so easy to miss:
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Thanks I clearly did miss it.
No worries. 
Out of curiosity, you say you’re Dvorak. Did you switch to Dvorak with the mech keyboards? Or have you been doing Dvorak for a long time before that?
Do you find a major benefit to Dvorak instead of QWERTY? Or is it just a learned preference at this point?
I switched to DVORAK around 10 years ago because my wrists were getting really sore. I had already purchased a Kinesis Freestyle keyboard (non-mechanical V1 board) and it had helped but not fully. DVORAK meant no pain at all from typing.
My typing speed increased a bit and my wrists aren’t sore so this is where I’ll stay.
The oddest thing is that I can’t touch type QWERTY anymore, unless it’s a software keyboard on the iPad. That seems to be no problem to type like I used to. Some mental switch flips and my brain just does it. Doesn’t happen on a physical keyboard at all.
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Any memory of how long your switching experience took? Any tips if I were to want to go that direction?
I have my Ergodox on the way literally right now, so I’m going to have to re-train my (30-year!) typing memory anyway - I’m contemplating a potential Dvorak switch.
That’s a valuable insight, thanks! Most of the others I’ve read insist that if you learn Dvorak you can just switch back and forth between the two, and I kind of feel like I’d be in your group - “can’t do it without looking”. The level of muscle memory buildup seems like it would almost have to be “unlearned” rather than just “switched off”.
You can have more than one program installed in your brain at once. E.g. people who have a car with an automatic transmission and a manual transmission. I once had two Harleys, one with brake and shift on one side, the other reversed. Once learned the switch was automatic.
As far as Dvorak, I could never touch type on a Qwerty, and wound up using four fingers and two thumbs, whereas with Dvorak, I did learn to touch type. I don’t have any problem switching back and forth.
Another interesting layout is Colemak. It shares the frequency of use-based layout changes of Dvorak, but retains some of the Qwerty layout to make the transition easier.
For anyone thinking about switching or just improving their skills, I recommend the game Epistory.
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Evidently it’s been 8 years according to my 2012 blog post. I talk about changing in that post as well for typing speed and accuracy. Seems like it was maybe around a month (from hazy memory extension of the blog post) to get up to 80ish words a minute. I said in the post that my accuracy went way up which is what made the change worth it early with slower typing even.
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Here’s a great video about having more than one ‘program’ reside in your brain at once.
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I get that that’s a thing, but it feels like my brain doesn’t do that as well as some others’ seem to. Take things like switching back and forth from my car to my girlfriend’s car (both of which I drive quite a bit, actually). I frequently wind up reaching for things in the wrong places.
With things like kitchens, I’ve had several kitchen layouts in my head in the past (used to be involved with groups of friends, and I’d cook at 3 or 4 different houses semi-regularly). But that’s a situation where I have the time to think about things, vs. the car where I rely on muscle memory.
Maybe if I drove all day every day and alternated cars it would become a non-issue. Who knows. I’m just trying to intelligently guess here. 
That’s definitely useful to know about. Thanks!
Adding my experience: I switched to Dvorak in 2008 by doing an online tutorial and then typing from the newspaper at the beginning of each workday (first a sentence, then a paragraph, then an article.) I switched cold turkey after a few months. I can touch type qwerty or Dvorak, although I have to warm up on qwerty now. Typing speed is the same but my wrist pain from qwerty disappeared and has never returned, even though I type more words per year than I did before the switch.
I definitely recommend it if you have wrist pain. Be sure to practice typing difficult words and if you’re a programmer, commit hard early on to learning the new bracket and brace locations so you can still do your job when you make the cold turkey switch.
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There is also https://typing.io/ which lets you type programming languages so you get all the extra brackets that are not in most typing practice efforts.
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I’m learning DVORAK myself and using Type Fu to teach me. I also invested in keyboard covers to go over my keyboards so that the key labels are correct. I got mine from kbcovers
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Hi, bumping the topic to ask some advices on the moonlander. I am thinking about buying it as I would like a split keyboard for ergonomic (fix shoulder position that after long hours starts to hurt). However, I have to admit that keyboard-wise, I am happy with the one my MBP (2015 MBP was the best, but 2019 16 it is not that bad either). I never tried any mechanical keyboard nor anything that is that complex to use. So, in short, before deciding to buy it, I have a couple of questions:
- if anyone made the jump from a typical apple qwerty, how much time did you spent to to get used to it?
- It does seems to not have enough keys! Only 72 vs 104 of a normal qwertzy. How do you deal with it? Do you miss some keys?
- Is anyone crazy enough to use with a laptop and actually taking the keyboard with him while travelling or it is super uncomfortable?
- Any switch recommendation for a novice? Or better: how do I learn something about it if I do not know anyone with a mechanical keyboard?
- It appears I can assign some keys for some macro. does it work reliably in real life?
A couple of months, plus or minus tweaking my key layout.
QMK keyboards like the Moonlander differentiate between tapping and holding keys, and based on tap / hold / double-tap / etc. it allows keys to re-map the keyboard when you tap / hold / whatever you set up. So for example, I hold my right pinky finger on the semicolon, and that turns my H / J / K / L keys into arrows (among other things). Holding the left “caps lock” key turns the area under my right hand into a numpad. This is all software-configurable, via a super-friendly website.
I wouldn’t, unless the laptop is going to be set up on a table or something.
Basic questions…do you like your keyboard loud or quiet? Do you like a tactile “bump” that you feel when you press a key? When you use other keyboards, do you find yourself complaining that the keys are too hard / too easy to press?
If I’m understanding you correctly, any macro stuff configured via QMK happens on the board itself. So if I set a button to Ctrl-Option-Command-P in QMK, that key combo is stored in the keyboard’s memory, and it sends it. It’s not dependent on Mac drivers to function.
There are also layers, where for instance, the number keys can be function keys.
Order a switch tester and see what you like.
This seems like an interesting keyboard for DAW/music work. Anyone doing that? Seems like the multiple key options/ press and hold options could be interesting for keyboard shortcuts.
Can you save different “keysets” or layouts? So when working in music, I don’t need to type text, and could use all the keys for shortcuts. Move to email, switch back to QWERTY?
You get “layers”, and each layer is a set of keys.
So for me, Layer 0 is the standard alpha keys. Layer 1 includes my symbols (left hand) and numpad (right hand). Layer 2 is keys that emulate a mouse (left hand) and arrow/other misc. keys (right hand).
Layer switching is controlled by defining keys to switch to (and from) those layers.
So theoretically, let’s say you didn’t want letters & numbers, but you did want a ton of macros and such. You could define the 1, 2, 3, etc. keys to switch to layer 1, layer 2, layer 3, etc. and have each layer programmed for a different app.
It would take some thinking through, but there’s potential there.
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Yeah, definitely.
There are different ways to change layers.
And similarly
I find that color coding the keys on different layers helps me remember which have similar functions. For instance, my inverted T for cursor movement are all green.
I’ve also assigned colors to the different layers and to the key that switches to that layer, as a gentle reminder on the edge of my vision.
Here’s my current layout. One of the most useful thing is, tap a letter, it’s just a letter, hold it for a bit, and it acts a command+the letter. Some people use this for shifted letters instead. Tap, it’s “a”, hold a bit, it’s “A”.
Having said all that, you might like a stream deck instead, since it has tiny displays on each key to tell you what they do. E.g. Stream Deck - The Ultimate DAW Controller? - Studio & Gear - The Professional Composers Community
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