More App Glitches than usual with Sonoma update

I’ve been surprised by a few apps simply not opening in Sonoma (instantly not responding) after upgrading to the release (not having played with the betas). I’ve had to put support tickets out for Devonthink and On1PhotoRaw.

I think the problem with Devonthink might be that I tried to run the previous version (not Sonoma compatible) not realising and then updated Devonthink when I realised and DT now thinks a database is open or not properly closed. Looked on the DT forum to find the usual blunt, unhelpful comments from “Bluefrog” (DT support person) warning not to upgrade yet and expect lots of problems caused by Apple but not specifying when they expected DT to be ready. I think those comments alone might finish my relationship with DT this time.

Not sure what is happening with On1. Even a complete manual uninstall and reinstall hasn’t fixed that and they say it is already Sonoma compatible, but maybe their attention is on their imminent major release. Was all working perfectly before the OS update.

So far, Sonoma itself and almost all my apps are working brilliantly and I’m really liking Sonoma. I am surprised because I haven’t previously hit this with previous MacOS updates - by the time the release comes out most serious software has been ready for weeks.

I wonder if having an Intel iMac might be a factor - I suspect most beta testers have Apple Silicon these days.

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I had the exact same scenario with DT, it was open after the OS upgrade, and it worked fine, then I upgraded it. So what you mentioned might not be the problem.

They have not tested their software with Sonoma yet.

From Support
ON1 Photo RAW 2023 has not been tested on the new macOS. We will be updating apps with any compatibility issues once the official version has been released.

DevonThink supports Sonoma since v3.9.3, released on Saturday: DEVONtechnologies | DEVONthink 3.9.3

I have had no issues so far with the software I am using, but it for sure needs time to update the OS and third party software until everything is working well no matter what. It always may be a good idea to wait some weeks before upgrading. Then again - I do not wait either and do my upgrades on day one. But… I do not earn my money using my Macs… :slight_smile:

I upgraded to Sonoma and I’m running DT without any issues. :crossed_fingers:t2:

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I just discovered that Arqbackup is logging the same error for everything in ~/Library/Mobile Documents/ “Failed to get contents of directory: Cloud file contents not present on disk”.

So I’ve removed all files from iCloud and am making additional backups in case I have to reinstall Ventura.

Welcome to Sonoma :frowning_face:

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I have also noticed this, seems like Apple has made some breaking changes… probably ‘security features’ :slight_smile:

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I had issues with Obsidian and iA Writer unable to open my Obsidian vault from iCloud. I made sure to grant permissions for those apps in Privacy & Security > iCloud Drive. I gave up and stepped away from the computer for a couple hours and when I came back, the issue was fixed. Maybe iCloud was doing some post-upgrade task that finished while I was away.

That isn’t fair. Bluefrog, if I remember, and I think I read that comment by him, was giving general and in my view, very good advice. He actually suggested waiting until APPLE, not their team, ironed out some issues. Issues which always happen and why it is wise to wait a short while. In fact the recent ios17 phone upgrade had a set of bug fixes, very much needed ones, within a couple of days.

The advice is good and I follow it with Apple upgrades and have for years. If I remember the advice Bluefrog gave was quite general and not addressed at a specific problem or request. You could also put in a support ticket to them for a specific problem, which I think you said you had done?

Just close off your synchs and close everything, make sure your databases are backed up too, they are I assume? Then open again, sometimes the warnings about data bases not being closed properly or not open. I can’t remember exactly what they say can just be ignored and you just open it after a restart, either from the ‘recents’ list or from the Database folder. That is what I do sometimes. I use DEVONthink 3 continuously all the time so I am often vague on details.

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Thanks, I am waiting a while though, it is now my policy.

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In fact this is the exchange about Sonoma, I had mis remembered it, the advice seems good, the app is ready but APPLE isn’t as it were, is how I read it and what experience with this app teaches me is probably the case.

I also felt there was nothing blunt by either Cronenberg or Bluefrog on that thread, the contrary. It must be a cultural thing, though I do live in America now. Where the most unhelpful, sneering and dismissive helplines, one recently from Apple support in fact, none the less ‘wish you a great day’. :rofl:

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I think Bluefrog’s comments were pretty blunt and unhelpful - saying that there’s nothing in Sonoma worth an immediate upgrade and that aspects of its design are “disgusting” are (perhaps) valid opinions but really shouldn’t (in my view) be coming from a support person in a forum where users are asking about his product’s readiness for Sonoma.

The general willingness, in my experience, of DT’s support to “blame” Apple or the user or to assume that the user should in some way modify their use of the product to make sure it works properly, plus those kind of dismissive remarks, seemed to culminate in a feeling today that I just don’t want to have to deal with DT any more (and I’ve been with it for many years - never really happy but finding it useful) Most of the time it works fine, but you have to keep a very close eye on it, in my experience and all sorts of things seem to result in corrupt databases or other glitches which are often very difficult to work through.

I had no idea when I used the app last Friday that an update was due to bring basic Sonoma compatibility 3 days before the OS was due to release or that I shouldn’t update when it did.

I’ve had a first response from support (asking for various logs) and I’ll see what happens when they’ve had a chance to look at them.

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Conventional wisdom over the years for any program is to wait for the .1 release before upgrading.

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Sonoma supports MFi hearing aids. It’s an immense benefit to those who use hearing aids. In fact - as this feature does not work on Intel machines, that of itself is sufficient for me to upgrade from a Mac Pro to a Studio.

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On1 is working - it took me a few goes to root it out completely from my system (and I think appcleaner may have finally done the trick) and reinstall. I thought I had already done that more than once, but today it worked.

I’m picking up a number of online comments from people where apps do not work on Sonoma at first, but do after a day or so. It might be (my speculation) that Sonoma is doing something more drastic than usual to “optimise” drives and that there are glitches that prevent a few apps working as expected until that is done.

I can also verify that what mina said is true. I updated and had the old version running. Once the update was finished, it opened the old version and then updated to the new one. It works fine, and I’ve not had any issues with databases. I hope this helps with troubleshooting, as just opening the old version in Sonoma doesn’t cause this problem. I didn’t run any betas either.

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I’m picking up a number of online comments from people where apps do not work on Sonoma at first, but do after a day or so. It might be (my speculation) that Sonoma is doing something more drastic than usual to “optimise” drives and that there are glitches that prevent a few apps working as expected until that is done.

DT3 is now working. I left it a few more hours after on1 and tried it again. It started and then went through a lot of “this database is open or not closed properly” dialogue errors, then I repaired and verified everything.

It does look as if Sonoma spends many tens of hours doing something in the background to upgrade the file system and complex software with lots of disk access needs might have problems while this is going on. I still have an iMac with a fusion drive so I guess a lot of people might not see this.

Still very likely to move away from DT3 one way or another, but at least I have it all back without having to go through manually.

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OK! I really can’t agree that there is any problem at all with Bluefrog’s remarks. He can’t win, if he gets informal and chatty he is out of line, if he is right to the point, he is ‘blunt’! :grinning:
I have to say, the public facing tasks are tough.
Let’s take a step forward though, rather than take a step backwards which you would do by dropping what I think is the best or one of the best Mac apps there is and one of the best teams too. That is move further into the ‘power user’ sphere and take the route that the ever helpful, concise and a real power user (unlike myself) @tomalmy takes. Really always wait a short time before upgrading, never upgrade on release.

I am still, by the way running a 2014 Macbook Pro, I still write on it, which won’t go beyond Catalina.
I will aslo add, though it is purely my perspective and usage, that there is no ‘user’ feature on Sonoma that I am interested in. I update for security fixes and because one has to keep the system up to date I understand if possible, for apps and so on.

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What other software - on ANY platform, not just Mac - does what DT3 does? None I know of

What other software company has someone interacting on a forum with customers as frequently and in as much detail as DT3 does? None I know of - even with Enterprise class software

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Public facing tasks are tough because users have such a wide variety of needs and expect you to listen to them, understand them and make useful responses that will help them.

I don’t hang out on the DT forum. Like most people I go there to look for an answer. I went there because DT was suddenly non-functional. I suspected it was to do with an aspect of upgrading to the release OS on my mac, which seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do, and might be about a corrupted database. I wanted troubleshooting steps and immediate things to do to stop any (further) data loss. Being told instead, effectively, by the software vendor that I was stupid for upgrading and it wasn’t worth the bother anyway, was not helpful or supportive.

Sadly, this isn’t the first time I have felt that DT is less than helpful to its long-time users. I’ve had to rebuild everything several times over the years when things have become corrupt or otherwise broken, through nothing I have done, and it does seem to have a habit of stopping synchronisation (Cloudkit) without telling you or giving you any kind of warning message. The current advice seems to be to not use any form of iCloud related synch if you don’t want problems, but I’ve dozens of apps that have synced happily for many years, every single time. I’ve had to work out for myself a whole number of workarounds and routines to minimise the damage when those kind of events occur.

To be fair, the response to the support ticket I raised was fast and much more helpful, even if I resolved the issue before they had worked out what was going on.

As for what else can do what DT does - there has been plenty of discussion here about how you can achieve everything that DT offers: from the file system to note-taking apps to Keep It and beyond. Yes, there’s no identical package, but at the end of the day it is essentially about keeping, organising and searching information and there are millions of ways of doing that.

As I said, I have found DT useful but I’ve reached the point where it is too much work for what I need it for and so will move forward. YMMV

But did I do that? No. My iPad Pro is my primary device and I was curious about Sonoma. As a result I got to test my personal “disaster recovery plan” and now Arq is running smoothly again on Ventura.

Before I retired I always had extra Macs to test each new release and a trusted “power user” to help evaluate the OS and the software we use. And we still ran into the occasional problem.

Alex Lindsay “a computer graphics and video production specialist” recently mentioned online that he will probably wait until next February to upgrade his primary Macs to Sonoma. I may not wait that long but I’m no longer in any hurry to try any of its new features.


If you have any interest in media production, Alex Lindsay and a few thousand professions hang out at officehours.global every day.