I have been a Windows user for 25 years. In my day job I am on Windows. I have to administer 10 servers that run windows. I never got the hostility against Microsoft, I appreciate this community as an open and friendly one.
At home I have been a Mac user for 14 years now. I prefer my Mac and I am happy with the Mac.
I do not see Microsoft gaining sainthood anytime soon, but I do not regard them as the antichrist, either.
In March, there were those reports about privacy issues with the new Edge browser. Those are the reports you keep referring to. I agree that those reports were valid. But even back then, there were options to use Edge in a sensible way.
Microsoft reacted:
I am using Edge on my work PC. I am using it with DuckDuckGo as the search engine. It is no issue at all to change the search engine.
I do not trust Google a bit. But I can understand that everybody has a different opinion. And I think everybody should have the right to express his or her own opinion. I tried Brave, I still use Brave. But as I have mentioned above, Brave has issues, too. I do not think that there is a single mainstream browser without issues. I think, everybody has to decide what she or he wants and if your decision is that you are fine with what a browser provides you with then it should be fine to use it. There is no right or wrong when it comes down to using a particular browser.
I’m glad to hear that you’re not forced to use Bing on your PC. Not interested in checking out Edge again so I don’t know if that it also the case on Macs.
But there’s no ‘sensible’ way to use Edge with privacy when Edge sends to Microsoft a unique identifier based on the user’s hardware config and there is no way to block it.
If you know of any configurations that block Microsoft’s baked-in hardware-based ID tokens I’ve really love to hear about it, and let others know. Otherwise we’re talking about a ‘usable’ OS and browser that identifies and tracks you relentlessly, which more knowledgeable users, like those who congregate on forums like these, tend to avoid.
Microsoft does not sell most of the PCs that are out there. With this identifier, Microsoft can connect a hardware device to a user. The reasons why they are doing this are being mentioned in the white paper. You have the opportunity to delete any data that comes with this identification. It is cumbersome but it can be done. You can read about that in the white paper. You can believe this or if you prefer you may not believe this. Apart from the options being explained in the white paper, there are firewalls and other third party tools to configure your devices to behave how you want them to behave.
Your Mac, your iPhone, your iPad and even your AirPods come with serial numbers.
When you first start your device, you connect them with your iCloud account. From that moment on, Apple knows where you are and where your devices are at. And they know a lot more than that. Some data is encrypted, other data is not encrypted. You very well may be aware of the desires law enforcement agencies have had in the past to get access to this data. And we all are aware of the fact that there is a lot of data Apple has available that is very personal and private. Some of the data is end to end encrypted, other data is not end to end encrypted.
The difference between Apple and Microsoft is that Apple‘s privacy policies are better than Microsoft ones. I agree. I use a Mac. I do trust Apple more than I do trust Microsoft.
But still, if you really want to be 100% safe, if privacy is an issue to a degree that you absolutely want to be sure that your data will always be your data, then you have to say goodbye to anything in the cloud and you have to use Linux devices, lock them down and have fun administering those things.
I do not want to keep going on and on about this topic. The only thing I wanted to say is that everybody is entitled to an opinion. There is not one single 100% true opinion about this matter. There are advantages and disadvantages for almost every platform and for every browser.
Are you referring to the Trinity College report I linked to? What’s the reason for Mac users to be tracked by Microsoft? What explanations do you find compelling or not compelling? What “options” do you refer to, and do they restore privacy from Microsoft hardware-derived identifiers and tracking?
Agreed! But if someone chooses to state an opinion without evidence (eg this is the best Chromium browser) or responds to issues of privacy while sidestepping the question with vague statements (eg ‘There are configuration options out there’ that make the Microsoft product ‘usable’) that person shouldn’t be surprised to meet skepticism.
The Microsoft White Paper doesn’t address why it tracks Mac users, doesn’t say its token can be removed or deleted. As to the examples I gave, I think you understand the part I quoted was you sidestepping questions with vague references.
The Trinity College report found that Edge shares users’ browsing history with Microsoft, along with identifiers that indicate the location or identity of the user. The fact that this data is being stored on Microsoft servers means it’s also subject to be shared with government agencies or third-party commercial partners — and could be disclosed in a data breach. The data being sent to those server servers is anonymized, tied to unique identifiers specific to users’ devices. But extensive research has shown that such data can usually be easily “de-anonymized” by connecting a few known data points about a person.
The report found Microsoft’s Edge browser, and the Russian Yandex browser, to be “more worrisome than the other browsers studied” because both browsers send unique, strong identifiers linked to the device being used, which cannot be changed. Both browsers also send browsing data via the search autocomplete function. And that white paper couldn’t find a way to prevent this data sharing.
So, although you may find this tracking and lack of privacy to be acceptably “usable” thankfully there are alternatives that really are protective of user privacy, are full-featured, well-supported, and fast. Because of this I see no reason to use the Edge browser, especially when its most vocal adherents can’t muster a good explanation why Edge should be chosen over Firefox, Safari or Brave.
How hard could it possibly be to install uBlock Origin?
Both browsers have their benefits in terms of speed. It really depends on how heavy the webpage is and the strength of the internet connection.
Have any news articles popped up about the specific “privacy issues” you’ve mentioned?
I never said that it validated my opinion. You’re getting worked up over a browser.
Besides, you’re just as anonymous as that Reddit user. We all are.
Again, you’re not forced to use Bing in Microsoft Edge (on either the PC version or the Mac version).
Oh, so you don’t just hate Microsoft Edge? Why can’t we throw our bias aside and stop arguing?
Nobody on this forum is more intelligently superior than anyone else. I don’t like having opinions forced down my throat.
I assumed that you had done your research regarding Microsoft Edge, so why would you need evidence?
All in all, I’m confused as to why you’re obsessed with me and my opinions (which are neither correct nor incorrect by the way, as they’re simply just opinions).
So far, you’ve only mentioned privacy and speed. What about the RAM usage of Microsoft Edge? What about HTML5 support? What about other browser benchmarking tests?
There is such a thing as a claim based on facts, and then there is the type of content-free cheerleading you’ve done, combined with a refusal to support your claim or answer questions about it, while engaging in absurd hominems (“clearly hates Microsoft Edge with a passion… you’re obsessed with me and my opinions”).
I think we’ve pretty much given up on your actually supporting your claims at this point. Like it or not people here can decide whether your Edge encomiums have any basis to them or not, and can decide that whether they want to use a browser that tracks you that you cannot stop, remove or hide when there are so many better options (for reasons discussed here and elsewhere on the forum).
Typical Gizmodo headline. The article’s content is thankfully better, and notes, “As far as gaffes in the digital privacy sphere are concerned, this one is actually fairly minor” We did discuss this over a week ago.
No argument re Gizmodo clickbaiting, but thought it was relevant. Sorry I missed the previous mention of this. My apologies for intruding on the conversation.
I think that’s fair to say. So if you are a hardcore Microsoft user (e.g., someone who would use MS because they want to and not because it’s “better”), use windows!
Also, this ain’t a subreddit
That aside, I realize you can config Edge (and even Windows) to get what you want. But the whole reason I use Apple stuff is because everything comes “in-the-box”. Everything is setup nicely so you can use like a normal human if you don’t want to mess with the settings. If you want to, great! but if you don’t, Apple lets you do that too.
Do you have any solid proof that they actually did remove it?
Also, that CEO guy kind of acted like a jerk on Twitter. Quite a few Brave users in that Twitter thread were disappointed and put off by the whole situation, resulting in many of them deciding to switch browsers (that doesn’t speak towards the entire userbase of Brave, especially yourself, but I thought it was worth mentioning).
I have a feeling that you just don’t want to hear what I’m saying, but maybe you can prove me wrong.
Yes, it was changed with a browser update the next day. You can do your own research about it - it isn’t hard. (Just make sure it hasn’t already been discussed this time before breathlessly resuscitating a six-week-old thread. )
Seeing as this thread is about Edge, just a note on the continued scumminess coming from Microsoft: for one, Microsoft was making it launch automatically on Windows and after an outcry finally revealed how to stop it. But even now, it continues to pin itself to the Windows desktop and taskbar and insist on asking users to switch to it from Chrome… and Microsoft won’t let you uninstall it on Windows.
Between this and the hardware-based tracking, it’s amazing to me that people would choose Edge now.
If it isn’t that hard, then go ahead and provide me with some solid proof. Otherwise, it seems like you don’t have any actual proof.
Apple won’t let you uninstall Safari on macOS. What’s your point?
Both Safari and Microsoft Edge cannot be uninstalled from their respective operating systems because they’re deeply integrated and could cause problems if removed. For example, what if a computer novice uninstalled Microsoft Edge and didn’t have a different browser already installed? They would have no way to access the internet (not to mention that it would be an absolute technical support nightmare).
The article’s content is thankfully better, and notes, “As far as gaffes in the digital privacy sphere are concerned, this one is actually fairly minor” We did 
)