The 3 main reasons for returning Vision Pro

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I don’t think that’s just driven by haters. When I’m considering buying a product (or in this case, one of its possible successors), I want to know the reasons I might not be happy with it as much as the reasons I’d find it enjoyable, useful, etc.

I’m enjoying hearing both what people like and don’t like about the AVP, because I like following tech developments.

Isn’t it just as important and interesting to know why some people are choosing to return it as it is to know why others are keeping it?

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You don’t have to be an Apple hater to have a problem with one of their products. I worked in tech for 25 years and was a major influence in getting my company to adopt Macs for most of their office workers. I like Apple computers.

But I see some problems with the current AVP, the main one being it is designed for a single user. In order to have multiple employees evaluate an AVP I would need to purchase the device, with AppleCare, for $4000 and also purchase a full set of light seals for an additional $3400. And I understand Apple will not sell full sets at this time.

It is a remarkable device but I don’t see a place for this version in most offices. Of course if one of my executives had requested one I would have made the 80 mile round trip to our closest Apple store that same day. :grinning:

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I own one, I have lots of gripes about it, and I am not saying their aren’t problems with it. I think most of us here know better than the average person all the flaws in Apple products. That is not what I am saying.

What I am saying is that this article didn’t cover anything new. All the sneak peaks, impression articles, reviews, videos, podcasts, forum posts, etc have already let all the potential buyers know all the drawbacks (and that is a very small group of people compared to how much coverage this device is getting). Did you really need another article to hear that it’s heavy and that some people find it blurry? There was nothing new in this article except some very weak claims that people are returning them based on people in social media. This was not a pros and cons of the AVP, that’s been covered all ready. This was a negative headline to get clicks. I mean it’s the Verge (Vox), that is what they do.

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That’s what the media has been doing for over a hundred years. William Randolph Hurst came up with the saying “if it bleeds, it leads” back in the 1800’s. Bad news gets people attention. I’m not saying it’s the right thing to do, but that’s never going to change.

Even the New York Times does it:

Vision Pro Review: Apple’s First Headset Lacks Polish and Purpose

“The device feels less polished than past first-generation Apple products I’ve used. It’s not better for doing work than a computer, and the games I’ve tried so far aren’t fun, which makes it difficult to recommend.”

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Yes, but those are scattered through longer posts, a lot of it was theoretical or first impressions, and the Verge article is covering people who are actually finding the disadvantages strong enough that they don’t want to live with the device.

A lot of people appear to be finding that useful information, which is driving readership. It didn’t read like empty clickbait to me.

Did you really need another article to hear that it’s heavy and that some people find it blurry?

Do we really need another article about how magical and transformative it is, and how a lot of people are keeping them despite the rough edges? Isn’t that all clickbait, too? We’ve heard it all before in some form or another.

But we’re tech enthusiasts, so we don’t mind. :wink:

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That is a legitimate review though. The Verge had one too, and then like every tech site desperate for clicks, they published article after article with no real new info. I get it, they are a tech site, that’s what they do and they know the masses will click. I am just surprised these kind of articles get any traction here.

Regardless, any site that publishes a “what people online are saying” article is just lazy. MacRumors sure, the Verge? That’s embarrassing.

Except literally every product has people returning it. You can take look on at r/Apple, Twitter hashtags etc. and can find negative comments about anything. You would have to live under a rock to not know what people think of the AVP. And as I have said repeatedly, it means nothing. Is it .01% of people returning it? 50%? Why are some people keeping it despite all the reviews, comments, about the weight, etc? There just isn’t many buyers out there left for this thing, this article wasn’t for those few hundred people.

NO. The coverage has been stupidly over the top. I have quit clicking on them (except the Ars Technica article that I thought was an interesting premise), I am sick of hearing about the thing. ATP, my favorite podcast that I almost never skip, I skipped this week since it was almost entirely about AVP. I can’t wait for everyone to forget the thing exists (except Apple, they better remember!). Yet here I am arguing about it. :pensive:

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True, but it’s much more interesting to learn why some people are returning an unprecedented product in a new category (especially since a lot of them probably scrambled to try to get them as soon as possible and were excited about finally being able to actually use them) than it is to hear why a few buyers are returning the latest MacBook or Samsung phone.

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I found The NY Times fashion reviewer’s take on the AVP more interesting than most of the tech reviews of it I’ve read:

…how we will look when wearing it matters. After all, what they are talking about is not just something you may use every day. It’s something that in order to use, you have to put on every day. And not just put on, but put on your face.

We know from wearing masks to combat Covid that any item that covers part of a face is an item that becomes an emotive lightning rod.

So what does the Apple Vision Pro…say about its wearer?

The truth is, it’s a little hard to know…because none of the people involved in the Vision Pro demonstration modeled the headset. Not Mr. Cook or Bob Iger of Disney…or Mr. Rockwell. Which raised a question: Why didn’t they wear it?

Maybe they were concerned that they would look silly… That the pictures of them looking silly in their new product would then be made into memes, and that … well, you know what happens next. Social media mockery!

…the lack of an actual person strutting the stage in Cupertino, Calif., wearing the product was a notable omission. As was the fact that no one talked about the design except in terms of its functionality…

Yet, if any company should know how much aesthetics matter in transforming a piece of tech into an accessory for life, it is Apple. That has always been part of its distinction… And there may be no device Apple has made where aesthetics will matter as much as on this one.

By making the Vision Pro look like goggles, Apple is wading into the shoals of pre-existing stereotypes, personality clichés and history. We choose glasses for all sorts of reasons: to look smart, to look cool, to look glamorous… Most of all, to look individual. And walking around with half your face covered by glass, no matter how swirly the screen, is a signifier for pod people.

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This is what I mean about the Verge. On this morning’s page they are really trying to cash in on the AVP, again. The article on the right about the shine coming off is for an article about their podcast, which for some reason their headline doesn’t reference. I wonder why?

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Thanks for pointing out this article. It makes some very import points… Here’s the link:

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That “article” about the AVP losing its shine, which is actually just about their podcast where that is just one of many subjects, is now #2 in the their most popular articles. More evidence that negative Apple headlines get clicks. (Their weekly podcast post never makes the most popular list, and usually the headline tells you it’s the podcast article.)

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You should listen to ATP, they spent about 40 minutes on this subject last week.

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I don’t get it. A writer at The Verge simply wrote an article about sharing the Vision Pro. I’m glad she did. I didn’t have time to listen to the very long podcast that touched on the same topic.

Apple missed an opportunity to sell more Vision Pros to less affluent families when they made it so hard to share the device.

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Don’t get what exactly? I just said if you found that interesting, there is really in depth coverage you might like. I didn’t comment on the that article, other than that the Verge is milking the AVP for all the clicks they can get. Also on the front page: AVP doesn’t know when the guy is talking because his mustache hides his lips.

LOL and there I thought it was $3,500 price tag.

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I don’t see any ‘milking’ coming from this one article. This was a particular interest of the author, and I think she and The Verge have every right to publish the article.

I don’t understand your ‘LOL.’ The $3,500 price tag is, of course, part of the problem. If a family with three children in school could share the Vision Pro, they might consider buying it. However, buying three of them (or five) might not be feasible, except for families in the upper ~10% of the US income distribution.

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I agree. The Verge is good at writing headlines that make people want to read or listen to the content, but unlike clickbait I typically find something of substance there. They usually have thoughtful, interesting takes on things.

I don’t always agree with them, but I also don’t just want to read stuff that confirms my own view on things or makes me feel good about my tech choices and purchasing decisions.

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Of course they have every right, I didn’t say they shouldn’t (I never said anything about that article, other than it was on the screenshot to show that the Verge currently had 2 headlines, and just below that, a fluff thing in their timeline about the AVP). Every tech site in the world is desperate for clicks and are going to do so any way they can. The Verge, and just about every other tech site, has posted article after article on the AVP. They are doing that because people eat it up (all these articles get way above normal amounts of comments, almost all negative). I am saying the vast majority of the articles are garbage. In my opinion, I think Engadget, the Verge, MacRumors, etc are mostly garbage sites regardless of that. If you like them and base your buying decisions on them, great!

You obviously don’t read the Verge though if you didn’t know about that article, so I am not sure why you care?

The price tag is THE biggest reason no one should buy it. After that, it’s the same thing every review says. It’s a cool first gen product that no one should buy unless they have money to burn and like to beta test hardware. The fact that it’s difficult to share is so far down the list on reasons, it’s funny. I guess there are two or three people still out there who have read all the coverage, decided they are going to get one despite all the negatives, but this was the nail in the coffin?

Those families, should never ever buy one. See my points above.

Fair enough, but I would argue you can better reviews from any dozen of less popular tech sites (or YouTube). The Verge is like the CNN of tech, light on content, ok for entertainment if you like that kind of thing. Victoria Song does The Verge’s fitness reviews, so I read a lot of her stuff. They are fine for the everyday buyer, but often inaccurate and light on details compared to less heard of fitness tech sites.

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This reviewer calls it as he sees it - wow.

“simultaneously the most interesting and annoying piece of technology ever made”

“The first thing to realize about the Vision Pro is that it has the single worst keyboard I have used on a modern consumer device… It is so poorly-devised, so horribly executed, and so offensively unfit for the task that I cannot understand how this device was allowed to launch with it. ”

“Apple, a company that redefined the computer several times over, has managed to launched a $3500 device that at its most basic level cannot let me type words on a fucking page, and it is astonishing that this company would launch a product so utterly ramshackle in its execution”

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“Apple isn’t commenting on the Vision Pro’s return rate, but data from sources at retail stores suggests that it’s likely somewhere between average and above average compared with other products — depending on the location.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-02-18/apple-vision-pro-returning-3-500-device-over-comfort-lack-of-apps-and-price-lsrk88mq

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VP owner here. It was a tough purchase. Just like the last time I upgraded my MacBook Pro. Spent close to $3K on it in 2017. I LOVE tech and grew up in a world where I could be the one to bring in punch cards, punch tape, tubes, 8” magnetic tape reels, a bad DASD platter. When the Apple ][ came out, my dad wanted it for VisiCalc (precursor to Excel). Learned a lot and fast in those days. Took a while but eventually ended up in IT.

With that said, the VP has been my friend since the Wednesday after go live. The weekend before I did a demo. Thought the thing was too heavy. Eye tracking wasn’t great for me. Neat tech, but did I really need to spend $3500-$4000 on it? No. Walked away thinking I was done.

But, then I spoke with a friend who went launch day and bought one. Talked about my concerns and what he experienced, and what others had done, etc. So - decided to go back and try another demo. Only this time, I was going to try the #21 light seal!

To this day, I’ve used this thing daily. Can count on two fingers the number of days it hasn’t been on my head for at least a few minutes. It’s killer feature? Freedom. I can go anywhere in my house and have the world as my monitor. Leave one work area to go to another? Press the crown and BAM, all my apps are there. A killer feature is being able to stand, place apps all around me and physically interact with them. When I’m not wearing it, I miss it.

It hasn’t been perfect. It’s been frustrating at times. Given the “experimental” nature of it, figured this would be the device I’d use the beta program with. SO maybe I’ve had more bugs than normal. But - I also get fixes faster! Eye tracking on Beta 1.2 improved greatly with the last update. I can more easily select items close to each other than before.

Can’t say I use it much for watching movies. Have a home theater and unless I’m by myself, that’s what I use. Eventually, Apple may allow syncing with the Apple TV and the video on my VP will be in tune with my TV/sound system. Then the fam can watch the small screen (65”) while I watch the large!

Considering arguments on being able to share the VP. You can. I’ve shared it guest mode with the same light seal, etc. One time I had a couple people over with smaller heads. Had to improvise, but was able show them what it was all about. They were amazed. But - I can give my code to my wife, and she can get in and use it for the most part.

But how important is it really to be able to share this thing? I have a MacBook Pro and iPad Pro. I may share the iPad more than the MacBook, but everyone else has their own thing. Kids tend to like their phones more than anything. Wife, her laptop. But now that I have the VP, it’s easier for me to give up my MacBook.

Really, it’s a great discussion on the VP and XR tech in general. Went to Microsoft in Seattle once, saw the Halo. Thought it was the coolest thing on the planet. But it was expensive and had limited use. Still expensive - same if not more than the VP. And, surprisingly, there are many other VR/XR/etc. devices out there - some cost a lot more than the VP.

Overall, I think Apple did a great job with VP. They are working out the bugs. And when people get over all the noise out there and look at it for what it is, realize they just may get one. Even if it’s still this version.

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