I don’t understand the need for iPad/iPhone backups to iCloud if you already use iCloud enabled apps. The most precious thing, your data, is already in iCloud. Am I missing anything else?
Me doing backups to both places … redundancy and because in my old age I’ve had to resort to full restores more than once (obsessive about backups). I use the 3-2-1 backup regime, best I can.
And, iCloud backup of iOS devices useful to me in past when purchasing anew device in the Apple Store and doing a setup of the new device at the store before leaving. Maybe that a clue that iOS backups actually backup everything.
I have not heard of reports of iOS backups restored from iCloud failing. I’ve heard of many reports of iCloud syncing unreliable for some (not all) and from my perch the unreliability ramps up as the file size gets bigger. Synching seems fine with syncs involving small data quantities. Just a hunch though.
Finally, not all my apps on iOS devices are “iCloud enabled”.
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Yes! From my perspective you are (or you might be).
Given posters on this thread are talking about loosing files. I’m concerned that if I trust all my files (including family photos and important documents) to iCloud will they be safe.
I agree with others that maybe iOS/iCloud storage is fine. Maybe the synching between iCloud and the Mac is the issue.
Peter
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I think you might be right.
I understand the sentiment and cannot deny that people find issues with iCloud or iCloud Drive (they are two different things), but my personal standpoint is that it’s not enough to make me not trust my files to iCloud Drive. My only concern is being locked out of my Apple account, but I try to mitigate that with infrequent ad-hoc backups.
Thank you and @rms for your answers! I have stated my position several times in this forum, and I always add the tagline: backups are a matter of risk aversion, and I am not endorsing anyone to do what I do 
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Agreed! If only Apple would develop a version of Time Machine for iOS! 
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Some of iCloud’s problems such as slow syncing are as old as iCloud. And so are articles with suggestions how to “fix” iCloud sync. AFAIK iCloud sync eventually gets the job done but it runs on its own schedule and, IMO, there is nothing we can do to improve the situation.
As far as backups, Apple is very clear what an iCloud “backup” actually backs up and how to restore files.
Delete and recover photos and videos on iCloud.com
Delete and recover notes on iCloud.com
Restore your reminders on iCloud.com
iCloud is a syncing service. “When you delete a photo or video from Photos on iCloud.com, it’s also deleted from all your devices that have iCloud Photos turned on. If you change your mind, you have 30 days to recover it before it’s permanently deleted.”
The same is true for Apple Notes, but Reminders may not have that limitation.
IMO the best/most inexpensive way for an iOS user to protect their Photos is to back them up to Google Photos. I use my iPad to do that. As far as the rest that “might be worth a new thread of its own.”
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Yes you are. ICloud is actually a set of discrete services e.g. Photos in the cloud, Messages in the Cloud, iCloud Files, iCloud Email, iCloud backups…
The bottom line is that If Data is sync’d via iCloud or is available elsewhere, it will not be part of your iCloud backup.
- iCloud backups, backup files from your phone/ipad so that if you lose it, you can get it up and running again with all data which isn’t sync’d via iCloud or available via the App Store. E.g. iCloud backups don’t backup your apps, photos, files on iCloud…
- iCloud files is a Sync service to allow you to have up to date copies of all files in your iCloud files available to each device. This is not a backup.
- Other services sync data directly e.g. e2e encrypted Messages.
So when you setup to backup to iCloud, it’s only sending what’s absolutely necessary. That’s why you may have 100GB of data on your phone, but the backup on iCloud is only 8 or 10GB.
When you then restore, the following things happen
- the OS is restored from the device (or Apple’s servers if you’ve really borked it)
- Data which was stored on the device which was not sync’d is restored from your iCloud backup, this includes app settings and some app data (app specific e.g. Game save data).
- Apps you had on the backed up iPhone/iPad which aren’t part of the OS are downloaded fresh from the App Store. This is why discontinued apps which are not longer available on the app store are lost.
- Data which is held by those apps is downloaded as appropriate if not restored as part of step 2 e.g. Whatsapp messages, Omnifocus data…
- A connection is made to your iCloud File sync and there’s a potential that some of that is downloaded, especially app specific folders
- Some data will not be restored or downloaded again, e.g. Apple Music downloads, Plex downloads. You need to do that again manually.
If you choose not to backup to iCloud from an iPhone/iPad then you would lose data covered in point 2, so all apps downloaded from the App Store would be default and would need setting up and configuring again, any data which the app didn’t offer to be backed up would also be lost, unless it was sync’d via the vendor’s servers or iCloud, and even data sync’d via iCloud may only surface when you configure that app to use iCloud to Sync (this may not be the default)
In short, without a backup, you’d effectively be starting from scratch.
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Below is a quick research note I put together about iCloud/iCloud Drive. Apple specifically describes iCloud Drive as a cloud based storage (like DropBox and Google Drive). The contents of iCloud Drive are available to be synched to other Apple devices that you own.
I can’t find anything specific about how Apple manages iCloud and iCloud Drive; but given that it’s a paid service I presume they are backing up their servers.
From my limited bit of R&D I think I’m happy enough to trust that my files are safe on iCloudDrive.
iCloud and iCloud Drive Notes
Introduction to iCloud
iCloud is the service from Apple that securely stores your photos, files, notes, passwords and other data in the cloud, and keeps it up to date across all your devices automatically. iCloud also makes it easy to share photos, files, notes and more with friends and family. You can also back up your iPhone or iPad using iCloud.
Safe and secure storage
Data stored in iCloud is encrypted and with two-factor authentication, your account can only be accessed on devices you trust.
https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/icloud/mm74e822f6de/1.0/icloud/1.0
Add your Desktop and Documents files to iCloud Drive
When you store your Desktop and Documents folders in iCloud Drive, you can access files from your Mac on all of your devices. That means you can start a document on your Desktop, then work on it later from your iPhone or iPad and on iCloud.com. Everything automatically stays up to date everywhere.
Turn on Desktop and Documents
Before you begin, make sure that you set up iCloud on your iPhone or iPad and that you set up iCloud on your Mac. Turn on Desktop and Documents Folders on every Mac that you want to use with iCloud Drive.
If you want to store your files in iCloud Drive and another cloud storage service, you can keep copies of your files in both, but you can’t keep folders from a third-party cloud service in iCloud Drive. You can keep your other cloud service folders in a different place on your Mac, such as the home folder.
How does iCloud Drive work?
https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/how-to-use-icloud-drive-and-get-the-most-out-of-it/
iCloud Drive works like other cloud storage services, such as Dropbox or OneDrive. On a Mac, there is an iCloud Drive folder, to which you can add folders and files. You’ll find iCloud Drive in the Finder sidebar, in the iCloud section.
Any app for Mac, iPhone, or iPad can store files on iCloud Drive, and you will see folders for these apps.
If you want to make a file on your Mac available to an iPhone or iPad app, via iCloud Drive, you can just drop it into that app’s folder. You can also save a file to iCloud Drive, or move a file that you saved on the Mac to iCloud Drive.
How to save files to iCloud Drive
When saving a file on a Mac, click the Where menu, and choose one of the two iCloud Library options.
You can save to the Numbers folder in iCloud, or, if you choose iCloud Drive, you can navigate to a specific folder. You will want to do this if you’re saving a file to a shared folder, for example.
You can also move files from the Finder to iCloud Drive, and vice versa. Open a file, then choose File > Move To, and choose where to move the file. The dialogue is similar to that above.
On an iPhone or iPad, apps that save files will do so either to their own cloud storage, if any, or to iCloud Drive.
How iCloud Drive works
https://www.computerworld.com/article/1678427/how-apple-icloud-drive-works-and-how-to-use-it.html
You can store documents, images and spreadsheets using iCloud Drive; you can also keep files and folders up-to-date across devices, work on them, and access these items from anywhere.
On iOS devices, you access your iCloud Drive through the Files app. Open Files and you’ll find iCloud Drive as a location. Changes applied to a copy of a file on one device will automatically sync across all your other systems.
This is a real file system, so you can create and save items to your own self-created folders, which is useful if you work across multiple devices.
If you use iCloud Drive across multiple Macs then changes made to the Documents and Desktop files on both Macs will sync. The Mac you activate last will create its own folder for the contents of its Documents and Desktop, and this will also sync.
What exactly is iCloud Drive?
https://www.sdmfoundation.org/2024/01/03/understanding-how-to-use-icloud-drive/
iCloud Drive is a part of iCloud that specifically deals with folders and files from a Macintosh computer. Your iCloud Drive stores everything that appears on the desktop, and/or in the documents folder, in the cloud instead of on the local computer. The files appear in those locations on the Mac, but the original file is stored in iCloud.
Documents stored in iCloud have a local copy on the computer if they have been used recently, and if there is storage space available. These local copies sync with the iCloud original when the computer is connected to the internet. There is only one true version of the document and it is stored in iCloud. When a document is changed or deleted it happens everywhere. These are not backup copies.
Some benefits of using cloud storage are:
- File Security – The storage on the cloud has backups and redundancies that a person’s individual device does not
- Accessibility – Files are accessable on any computer by signing into the users Apple ID
- Sharing and Collaboration – there are more sharing options for document stored in the cloud
- Syncing across multiple devices – changes made on one device propagate to all devices
- Storage Capacity is limited by iCloud storage, not device hardware
Function & File Structure
When synced properly, users will have access to all their files no matter what device they are on.
The file structure of iCloud drive on a Mac device will follow the same structure that users are familiar with in the Finder app.
The section “iCloud Drive” on the sidebar to the left, will contain all folders and files stored within it.
When syncing with a Mac computer, Desktop and Documents folders users will see these storage areas multiple times in the finder. But, they are all the same one.
Folders created on phones and tablets will also appear in the finder section on a mac, and vice versa. So, anything saved to these areas from a phone or tablet will also be available on synced devices.
What is iCloud Drive?
iCloud Drive is the file storage tool in iCloud. It’s similar to Google Drive, OneDrive, and Dropbox in that you can copy files to and from it, sync them with other devices, share them, and even save files directly from applications. iCloud Drive can be accessed from the sidebar of a Finder window — in the iCloud section. It can also be accessed using the Files app on iPhone or iPad and by logging into icloud.com
Store files in iCloud Drive on Mac
https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/mac-help/mchle5a61431/mac
With iCloud Drive, you can safely store all kinds of documents in iCloud, and access them from any of your devices and on the web at iCloud.com.
You can use iCloud Drive on Mac computers (OS X 10.10 or later), iOS devices (iOS 8 or later), iPadOS devices, and Windows computers with iCloud for Windows (Windows 7 or later required). You must be signed in to the same Apple Account on all your devices, and they must meet the minimum system requirements. See the Apple Support article System requirements for iCloud.
Note: If you have devices with iCloud Drive turned off, documents and data on those devices aren’t kept up to date with documents and data on your devices with iCloud Drive turned on.
Store your Desktop and Documents folders in iCloud Drive
https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/mac-help/mchle5a61431/mac
You can have all the files in your Desktop and Documents folders stored automatically in iCloud Drive. That way, you can save files right where you usually keep them, and they become available on all your devices and iCloud.com.
WARNING: When you turn on iCloud Drive to update your Desktop and Documents folders, you may need to turn off any other third-party app or cloud service that syncs those folders. Syncing by other third-party apps or cloud services can interfere with or stop the updating performed by iCloud Drive. See Store your folders with a third party.
- On your Mac, choose Apple menu > System Settings, then click your name at the top of the sidebar.
- If you don’t see your name, click “Sign in”, enter your Apple Account email address or phone number, then enter your password.
- Click iCloud, click Drive, then make sure iCloud Drive is turned on.
- Turn on Desktop & Documents Folders.
- Click Done.
After you turn on Desktop & Documents Folders, your Desktop and Documents folders are moved into iCloud Drive. They also appear in the iCloud section of the Finder sidebar on your Mac, and in the Files app on your iPhone or iPad. See the Apple Support article Find files on your iPhone or iPad in the Files app.
Tip: You can quickly view the sync status of iCloud Drive on your Mac. Hold the pointer over iCloud Drive in the Finder sidebar, then click the status or information icon.
What Happens When You Turn Off Desktop & Documents Folders for iCloud Drive?
https://macmost.com/e-2904 If you decide you want to turn off this useful feature, you’ll find yourself looking at a very scary warning before moving forward. Find out exactly what happens when you do it.
This isn’t true for your backups and some other data.
TL;DR —
- turn off “Optimize Mac Storage”, your files will not be evicted once you’ve turned that “feature” off.
- Use macOS above Sonoma 14.5; Apple fully switched to FileProvider and at least in my experience all my synchronization problems went away.
- Use the fastest Internet you can get your hands on; especially upload speed. (Step 2. might’ve been fixed by me switching to fiber to the home.)
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My wife and I got new iPads last year. I have over 200 apps on my iPad. The iCloud backup let me load my current configuration onto the new iPad. Unless I’m trying to recover from a significant problem I don’t like to nuke & pave.
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