What Has Changed: Me, Writing Applications, or Both?

[TudorEynon]

My life partner ran a succesful business and chaired a HOA for three years purely on iPhone with admittedly proprietry soft ware in her office, she did a lot on the phone. She is systematic and neat but no ‘extras’, no apps at all other than native ones, nearly everything done on email too.
I do use Markdown and LaTeX.
I am not convinced my power user stance is ‘better’ in any way really, we do different things of course… However I am not a productivity geek, not by any means and my stuff is quite random. I have to say I found DEVONthink 3 is the place I want to be. It fits that random, pile em high, approach. For the first time in my life I found on it that a ‘search’ and their control + s thing, what ever is called, was useful and reliable. I do find my desktop piles up with current notes and LaTeX files and…

There were times that my old system broke down. I haven’t had to face that with DEVONthink 3. I hope I don’t ever now: I am backed up in several ways, with stored backups of older states of the databases in case of corruptions I don’t notice. So the ‘piles’ as it were, can be more or less restored intact and in their original state

[Clarke_Ching]

Sometimes it’s better to take the bus to work.
Sometimes it’s better to walk.
Those escooters look like fun.

[Bmosbacker]

@Clarke_Ching

Those escooters look like fun.

Unless you’re an emergency room physician.

[WayneG]

An ER doctor I used to know said they refer to motorcyclists as ‘organ donors’.

[Synchronicity]

Interesting. Thanks!

[Bmosbacker]

That’s funny!
20 characters….

[Bmosbacker]

@TudorEynon

ran a succesful business and chaired a HOA for three years purely on iPhone

I believe it, but it is incomprehensible to me. I can’t imagine getting my work done just using my iPhone. I can barely accomplish all my work with a Mac, iPad, and iPhone.

[iPersuade]

In my earlier post, I did not actually address “the call of the question”:

@Bmosbacker

Is it just me or others in this forum who have grown fond of applications like Scrivener and Ulysses, primarily because we discuss such things? Could I (we) just as effectively use Word or Pages as most people do? Is this dilemma, if one wishes to call it that, similar to what we face when deciding on note-taking and storage applications, such as Obsidian and DEVONthink?

The short answer is that we could just use Word or Pages as most people do. Word and Pages are both full-featured Word Processors and the whole publishing world is even built around Word, or so it seems. Anything that allows us to get our text into a document, format the document, and output it would work. Plus, tools like Word have useful advanced features, like outlining, styles, track changes, macros, etc.

However, we would most certainly NOT be as efficient. As you know, I am a huge fan of Scrivener. (Of course some of us prefer other tools, so I’m using Scrivener throughout as my personal example. Readers may substitute in their mind their favorite non-Word, non-Pages version of a word processor).

Getting and learning Scrivener resulted in a sea change in my writing. It’s the best writing tool I’ve ever used and I could not imagine going back to the “stone knives and bearskins” days of Word. The facilities that Scrivener brings to the table in terms of organizing and developing a piece of text is without parallel in Word or Pages.

I once had a particularly tricky argument that I was working on and I had several text documents in my Scrivener binder that were a sentence or two each that I agonized over. Could I have done that in Word? Of course. Did I want to, no! More importantly, I think I was able to do it better, think about the writing more deeply, and wind up with a result that I wanted (the Court agreed!) because of Scrivener. It’s an invaluable tool that I use for all my significant writing.

TLDR: My view is that improved tools help us to do things better, and it can be valuable for us to research, try them out, and put the ones in to practice that improve our productivity/efficiency. On the other hand, the blissfully ignorant do manage to bang out some pretty amazing writing despite having aging tools.

[Synchronicity]

@iPersuade

The facilities that Scrivener brings to the table in terms of organizing and developing a piece of text is without parallel in Word or Pages.

I’ve seen so many people say they hate Scrivener because you can’t just start using it without taking the time to learn how it works. They can’t be bothered to spend a couple of hours with the excellent in-app tutorial.

Professional software isn’t particularly easy to learn, but it makes your work easier once you’ve learned it. Photoshop is never going to be as easy to learn as Apple Photos, but for pro photographers, it’s a far better choice.

[cornchip]

@iPersuade

I think I was able to do it better, think about the writing more deeply, and wind up with a result that I wanted (the Court agreed!) because of Scrivener.

Yes! We are all limited thinkers and writers. The wrong approach doesn’t just slow us down–when we’re pushing the limits of our abilities, making our work harder can be enough to prevent us from succeeding. This applies beyond tools to books read, insightful conversations, health, places visited, etc.

[TudorEynon]

Yes, it is incomprehensible to me too, it really is. She knows other people too who do it she said when I asked just now. Happy New Year Blwyddyn Newydd Dda though a bit late. Thanks again for reaching out a few months ago.

[Bmosbacker]

As always, a wonderfully thoughtful response from you. I’m using both Ulysses and Scrivener, but I’m slowly moving my writing to Scrivener over time. I like Ulysses, but it does not have the organizational tools I need for complex, long-term projects. Pages is great for a final polished product but lacks the necessary organizational tools. Though I dislike depending on DropBox and having the app running in the background, it is an acceptable “cost” to gain the benefits of Scrivener. Thanks for the great response.

[Synchronicity]

Scrivener is one of the best deals in professional software of all times. The developer has priced it so that it’s affordable even to writers who aren’t yet making money from their art.

[mstamper77]

I think you are overthinking the issue. Making a good decision amongst so many choices takes considerable time. A lot of time needs to be invested in learning enough about multiple products to make a proper decision. Time spent learning products that you’ll end up not using, is time you’ll never get back. Most people simply do not have the time for that, unless software is the end in itself. Most people want to get on with their work and are happy to let the decision regarding choice of tools be made for them. I don’t think it is necessarily a generalized lack of curiosity (though I think that’s a big issue in our culture); rather sometimes it’s just a lack of curiosity about software.

My issue is that people who invest no time choosing software also invest no time LEARNING the software that has been ”chosen” for them. So they torture themselves and everyone else with their lack of understanding.

[alvinc]

You are able to write because you are able to think or create something. No tools can make you more creative directly or analyse something much better, but may facilitate. Only you who are determined to go wild and have more life experience. Or self discipline. Or workflow you create. Or you just relax yourself first…

Tools are designed by developers who just meet their needs or when they listen to users’ opinions.

As I don’t like Word, I first wrote my guide book for Japan through iA Writer. Later on when I write a blog article I used to use Evernote. Now I find Apple Notes is fine.

Some apps may have full screen focus mode, but I find Apple Notes that I can still focus on writing something if I want to take some notes. Sometimes I will write on my phone or paper notebooks.

Just know thyself. Just write first. Just enjoy recording what you think (suddenly) first.

[Glimfeather]

I am a Scrivener user and have been since v1.x. I find its Binder the most useful feature as it lets me play with the structure safely by dragging the documents around rather than Words blobs of text and messing the entire document up. Reached the point now where I do not use conventional word processors at all everything is in Scrivener and if the need arises to share with it a Word-ite I use the program’s compile feature to give that person something they can read.

Scrivener’s separation of origination and presentation means I can write in my chosen font of Gill Sans regards of what a “publisher” might demand in their house style.

Also over the years Scrivener has acquired the possibility of compiling to LaTeX to produce superb typeset versions of my scriblings.

I for one will not be returning the conventional word processor model anytime this century.

[Synchronicity]

I’m sold on Scrivener for the same reasons.

@Glimfeather

Scrivener’s separation of origination and presentation means I can write in my chosen font of Gill Sans regards of what a “publisher” might demand in their house style.

I like writing and editing in iA Writer Quattro so much that when I have to use Word, I sometimes change the file’s Normal font to Quattro while I’m working and change it back before I send it out.

[hbowie]

I think there are lots of reasons, many of which have already been covered.

But I think there are a couple more worth mentioning.

1. I started out with word processing using WordStar on an Osborne running CP/M, so I am well aware of the evolution of the software that eventually resulted in MS-Word becoming a de facto standard in the business and publishing worlds. And at one point I was very much impressed with MS-Word. But that point was probably… 30 years ago? And how much has it changed since? And how much can it change, because the whole point of a standard is that it doesn’t change. And so one reason why those of us on this forum like to explore other options is because we enjoy progress for its own sake, and don’t enjoy using the same thing over and over again.

2. Jackson Browne has a song called “Casino Nation” in which he laments “the way the hammer shapes the hand.” And likewise I certainly believe that the tools we use for writing also shape the way we think. MS-Word forces us to think in terms of documents, and document formatting, and document publishing – even though much of the text-based world of 2023 is no longer document-based. And so I find that my thinking is clearer and cleaner if I’m not using MS-Word or Google Docs.

[Synchronicity]

For anyone who doesn’t know, Herb is the developer of Notenik, a native free and open source notes and PKM app written in Swift and available on the Mac App Store.

@hbowie

I find that my thinking is clearer and cleaner if I’m not using MS-Word or Google Docs.

That’s often true for me as well. When I have to write in Word, I often find myself bouncing out into another app or the Drafts cmd-shift-2 quick capture window to write a paragraph or section and then pasting it into Word.

Part of the problem (for me at least) is that Word, Gdocs, Pages, LibreOffice, etc. are built with the expectation (or at least give the impression) that you’ll start at the beginning and write straight through to the end, combined with the WYSIWYG layout amd typography making the document look finished from the start, which makes it hard to relax and bang out a rough first draft.

It also helps if I temporarily switch the font in Word to one that makes it look like a rough draft, then change it back before I share it.

[Bmosbacker]

I certainly believe that the tools we use for writing also shape the way we think.

This strikes me as very true, and important. Well said.

So may I ask what you use for most of your writing?