Good arguments to buy Devonthink Pro

I don’t want to talk you out of DTPO at all, but you might want to consider a zettelkasten (zettelkasten.de) using text files with the (markdown) text editor of your choice + Houdah Spot.

Tons of flexibility and the future-proofness of text.

On the site they sometimes discuss DTPO vs a zettelkasten.

I use the mail import tool in DEVONThink Pro Office.

Still a work in progress, it’s bloody slow and no easy way to select multiple mailboxes to import (using the Archive function) at once so I have to do them all by hand.

Mine are in a folder called DevonThink Databases in a folder called DWA Data in Documents. I also use a sync store on my own WebDav Server running on my same iMac and that is how I sync my iOS devices. Was fiddly to get set up and still occasionally goes tits up but can be resurrected by shutting off sharing on the DAV folder in the Server App, restarting my machine and then resetting all sharing on and restarting again. Happens about once every 2-3 months or so.

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Zettelkasten Is a Mac only app?

@RichardC My understanding is that since it’s premised on text-only files, it’s device agnostic.

That said, I’ve seen Mac and PC apps for it, but these are really just ways of assisting the linking between text files. So you could probably do the same using nvALT, Ulysses, Devonthink, OneNote(?) etc.

Have a look here for suggestions: Possible apps

In general, I might say that my issue has to do with seeing content and meta content and ways to manipulate content and ways to manipulate meta content all gathered in different places at different sizes and colors and positions throughout the window.

Useless ink means drawings or text that contributes no core information. It is the opposite of the concern that you raise about having useless whitespace.

The use of different colors and sizes of icons (buttons) causes inherent confusion about the relative importance of each.


I defer to go in to details on this forum. It is impolite to the DT developers for one, and it is not germane to the thread. I’ve done a bit of ranting on the DT forum. At the end of the day, I have learned that I am better to just try to use DT as best that I can. It is not that DT does not do well at what it is designed to do (although I also have strong issues with some aspects of its approach); it is that I have a low tolerance threshold for software that forces me to see past or get used to its UI design in order to focus on a tasks that I need to do.


JJW

I’ve got several databases that size — other than email archives (which is indeed extremely useful). I’m an academic, so I have one main “research” database, that has all my Bookends PDFs (and my notes on these PDFs), maps, videos, and relevant emails. Then I have teaching databases, and personal databases. They are all different shoeboxes. Everything/anything that could be useful at some point gets thrown in the global inbox. They then are sorted (or auto sorted) in their appropriate databases (and many synced up across my devices). Devonthink has saved me/generated interesting lines of thinking time and time again. I discuss this a bit more over here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iZd73RsvsxndEW5TtEcMIwbH2N_H56se1J5SzeFd1BE

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As @BradG notes, a zettelkasten is a slip box that is used to hold index cards. These days, you can choose to use software to store and link your notes, but you’re welcome to stick with index cards.

The basic idea is that you want to capture discrete thoughts when you have them. Then you want to connect one thought to another. Over time, this database of ideas becomes a second brain. Some thoughts stand alone; some connect to other thoughts.

As you write, you reference your thoughts and follow any connections. Sometimes you’ll be surprised by connections you forgot, or be inspired by new thoughts that never would have occurred to you.

The articles on zettelkasten.de and YouTube explain this much better than my poor attempt.

Best of all, a zettelkasten is platform agnostic: write on index cards, create notes in DTPO or Evernote, or use your favorite text editor (SublimeText, BBEdit, Textmate…) to create separate .txt (or .md) in a directory (eg, /zettelkasten) which you can search with HoudahSpot.

It’s an exciting tool (methodology)!

After trying to get this sorted out for the last week, thankfully I still have a good chunk of time left on my trial, lost out on the $15 for iOS.

Here are my findings. (For me at least) I’ve been an Evernote user for a long time.

DevonThink in my opinion, is not meant to start “writing notes” into it. It’s your storage, your cabinet, reference, etc.

Evernote, while it has limitations, does the storage and cabinet concepts, maybe it lacks a bit in searching, but I can also start my notes in there, if I choose.

For me that’s a difference that matters to me.

On iOS, I start out with Drafts and in ends up at Byword or Evernote, depending on the scenario.
On Mac, I start out with Byword or at times Evernote (if something came up in my searches), but at the end of the day, the note ends up being stored in Evernote.

I think if I were to develop my use in DevonThink, I would probably utilize an external editor more frequently (perhaps Evernote Basic Free, no subscription) and just store in DevonThink.

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Each person’s needs and preferences will be different but I take all of my meeting and conference notes in DT. I do not, however, do short or long form writing in DT, I use Ulysses for that purpose. I can also use Drafts or Ulysses to write notes and send them directly to DT via the share menu.

Hi Joe: I am taking the plunge to DEVONThink, and dump Evernote. I did she DEVONThink offering Devon Nagent Pro. Have you had any experience with Devon Nagent Pro? please let me know & hope you are having a good week.

Do you have Pro or Pro Office? why one over the other? thank you

Thank you, you answered my question about purchasing Devon Nagent Pro. Yes!!!

You are most welcome. It is elegant, but works. :slight_smile:

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I have DEVONAgent but have not used it enough yet to determine if it useful for me. I need to make a concerted effort one of these days.

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I blew a few hours trying to get useful results from DevonAgent - discussion here : The other Devons...Agent, Sphere

Self-hosted WebDAV would be the way to go…

You can do both. Have DT index your zettelkasten files.

Indeed, but at least now DT looks cheaper and easier =)

Last year I gave DevonTHINK a serious try. I wanted to build a repository for my tech support business, which meant that the database(s) would hold pdfs, web links, and sometimes rtf/text documents. It had to be accessible on iOS (iPad especially), and seamless to put stuff into and to categorize.

After about 8 months, I gave up in frustration; it just doesn’t live up to its promises.

Why I left:

I couldn’t get sync to be 100% reliable. I had too many times when stuff just wouldn’t appear on my iPads, and I wasted lots of time troubleshooting. (I know: it’s getting better. But looking at the forums, it’s always getting better. Sync is hard.)

Getting stuff into DT’s “inbox” was easy, but you couldn’t easily put it into the correct place on iOS. If I know exactly how an article should be categorized, then I should able to put it where it belongs as I’m adding it to DT — every time, correctly. I don’t want to dump a bunch of stuff and then triage it later, since I have to re-read it to decide where it goes.

The automatic categorization stuff never worked. Ever. After doing so much up front work, I expected DT to be able to learn from my organization, but it was dumb as a bunch of rocks. The one thing that could have kept me using the app was if I could just throw content at it and DT would properly categorize it for me, as their marketing promised. But it simply could not.

Search often couldn’t help me find what I need in my databases, possibly because the difference between various articles was too slight. I was usually better off scanning for what I needed.

The interface is incredibly cluttered, full of “junk”. To someone as visually oriented as myself, this made it really hard to focus on my work.

Not much of the interface is obvious, and while it is possible to learn, it’s not a pleasant experience. It’s a significant hurdle.

(It reminds me of Photoshop, actually. They’re both horrid interfaces. But I stick with Photoshop because (1) I have been using it for more than a decade, so I know my way around and (2) I don’t have to pay for it because I need to purchase an Adobe subscription for other applications.)

The text editor is, likewise, inelegant. I found myself not wanting to take notes there.

None of this invalidates other people’s views, of course. We all have different needs, and obviously there’s lots of good in this program. But with DevonTHINK’s high cost in time and money, I wanted to put my experience out there to help others avoid wasting theirs.

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