Has anyone here rolled their own iCloud on a Synology?

Software
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Hello everyone,

For the past two years or so I have been overall satisfied w/a file server set up on a Synology that allows to a) access desktop files at will (including large files,) b) move photos off mobile device to save space, c) frees up all devices (mobile, desktop etc.) to be more like an appliance and Synology is where the bulk of important files live.

Here is the one hiccup. In all of this, I am not getting good success with applications that would read/write to/from a server. If you have iCloud going, your primary data file resides on iCloud and apps read/write to that one file from any device. Haven’t found that same level operability on the current setup. Webdav has been the closes, which some apps will handle.

Anyone here roll their own iCloud on a Synology? Time to get the self hosted iCloud Drive bit working.

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I’m not stalking you :wink:

The difference on iCloud is that it I think that it will download the file, allow you to work on it and then sync any changes (unless you access it via the icloud webpage). Dropbox is the same.

That’s very different to working with a file directly on a remote server e.g. use of Google Docs.

You’re looking for something with a local client which can download files.

So whatever

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What apps are you having issues with?

Obviously your upload speed and connection will be the biggest issue with accessing the files. I have a synology and have no issues doing what you describe, but there are so many use cases and I’m not exactly sure what your issue is.

There are also apps like synology files which “remote” connects, where synology drive can keep a local copy that syncs back later. Both are useful for different situations.

So if just doing “iCloud Drive” use synology files or drive for which style you prefer. Sure if you want WebDAV for an app that works, but you also can use SMB, NFS etc so again all depends on your use case.

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@geoffaire ir correct. You need a client app on each device to handle the syncing for you. The client app handles syncing files between the server and the local file system. Then your various apps are just accessing files on the local file system. You mentioned Synology. It is my understanding that they have their own system so if you are using the Synology Drive Server, install the appropriate client app on each device. There are also a few different independent third party systems you can install and configure instead (Syncthing, NextCloud, OwnCloud, etc). I looked at them all and decided I liked Resilio best as it’s not server/client but peer-to-peer. Way less configuration; just works out-of-the-box; and recently began offering a free personal-use license.

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As waylan suggests, use Resilio Sync. While it is peer to peer, the Synology can be a peer! I’ve been using a Mac mini as a server running Resilio Sync for many years with no problems and have eliminated Dropbox completely. Can’t really replace iCloud for things that seem to be hardwired to use it.

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For a number of years, I’ve been satisfied with their Synology Drive server and app, running on two macs and two iOS devices. Certainly does not have all the secret sauce that Apple has in iCloud, but as a file sync service works well for me. I don’t use it exclusively as also running are Google, OneDrive, Dropbox, and iCloud. For various reasons, some historic and/or valid–some not.

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Thank you for all the responses…and yes an open to the idea that it may be my understanding of the technology that needs tweaking.

TLDR - something in my setup isn’t working right to replicate functionality of iCloud.

Speeds - don’t mind slower speeds as the priority is to get the setup working like iCloud, even if it would slow.

Resilio Sync - loving it for years and use daily. I use it mainly to get files around automatically. These directories are sectioned off on each device, and from time-to-time I organize files into a different, more permanent, location. (note - be wary of the ‘Remove all synced files’ option as this is prone to error.) Do not want Resilio Sync having access to all the data, which is the reason I have RS directories sectioned off…and it handles ‘recents’ so-to-speak, and on occasion I throw in files that could be handy to grab while away.
Side note - there is a RS client for Synology as well (albeit I haven’t gotten it complete working yet, project for another time.)

Synology Setup - SMB has been the protocol along w/Webdav. From the Mac, mount the shared volume and it sits in the finder left bar. Everything seems to work well except:

  • saving always gives a warning as permanent (saving versions not supported and such)
  • any type of modification (including delete) are permanent. No trash can. No undo etc.
  • apps that support iCloud don’t support Synology in the same ways (maybe it is my setup?)

iOS - From iOS devices I’m using FileBrowserPro (OwlFiles also works…even Transmit) to access Synology files. *Synology Drive, itself, seemed a bit too rudimentary…not enough TLC in the UI and experience. *
Note - only FileBrowserPro shows in the various iOS ‘share’ menus.

I can ‘access’ files stored on the synology as needed … as a file server. Working from a file stored on the synology is the hiccup. Apps that support iCloud so you can work from any device off the same datafile, is what is happening.

Testing right now… I can access everything fine using FileBrowserPro etc. I create a new Pages document from the iPhone and hunting for a spot it will allow me to save and switch over the Mac (replicating iCloud experience.) Pages is allowing me to ‘copy’ but not save original. If the ‘home cloud’ so-to-speak were working, it would be as seamless as iCloud.

Switch over the Mac, open the test document and edit. Upon save " The document “Contemporary Report.pages” is on a volume that does not support permanent version storage.
Save it anyway, return to iPhone and test document not updated because I edited a copy, not original.

Next, I am in Pages…need to browse to freshly edited document (this time I use Owl Files to get it.) Open, I am seeing the edit. Go back to Mac, open w/pages and most recent edit is reflected.

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One reason I was keeping Resilio Sync as in its own corner has been that, up until recently, RS made ‘copies’ of everything everywhere. Now that Selective Sync is available as part of its personal product line (formerly pro) maybe this concern goes away except…here is the part I can’t get my head around - as I’d LOVE it if RS could be the personal iCloud on its own…no need for an overly complicated server etc.

Another key reason, identified years back and doesn’t seem to have changed, is that RS needs to running in the foreground for any sync activity to occur. Already switching back and forth the RS as it is, and to sync documents and such seems too much. Testing now w/that same sample Pages doc. Each device is on the latest OS and RS, and at least for me, I still have to launch RS to sync before any changes are reflected on different devices.

Maybe there is a setting somewhere that can be changed to allow RS to sync in the background? If so this opens a world of options to explore.

Say I am on the road and need to reference a file. I open RS, navigate to said directory and then I need to actually DOWNLOAD the file to the iPhone. Hope my understanding is off. Then

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I would recommend re-trialing synology drive. I have no issue with your workflow with pages, and they have added a new feature where it will allow a local “sync” folder. So it puts a folder on your device that synology drive will keep in sync on the backend. It eliminated all issues for me since it’s a “local on device” folder but still syncs to synology.

If this is just for a few apps then this should work to let it sync in background.

Also are you sure your app is using “iCloud” as a storage location as compared to using an iCloud Drive integration?

Can I ask why you use file browser pro? What extra is it giving you? I’ve tried a few in the past but never felt like they made much difference as compared to just using drive. Drive is simple but tends to work.

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Resilio Sync is set to start on startup (in Resilio Sync settings, and also appears in Login Items). It’s basically always in the background here. Yes it has to be running, but only unobtrusively in the background.

Note that I only run RS on Macs, not on iPhones. I don’t know how it works there. When I’m on the road with my MacBook it syncs with my home Macs (including the server) seamlessly and invisibly.

Since RS is peer-to-peer, it requires that at least two systems be running for syncing to occur. Since my home server is on 24/7, the MacBook syncs to that when I’m not at home. When I return home and turn back on my iMac, it syncs to the server Mac and gets any changes that originated on the MacBook.

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• FileBrowserPro - robust, can handle most scenarios and handy bookmarks, troubleshooting etc.

• iCloud and iCloud Drive are both disabled.

• Local sync ‘folder’ I tried a few years back. Reslio Sync trumps any local sync folder. The use case isn’t a handful of docs (or apps) that need to sync all the time… it is about keeping everything (lot of content) on self-hosted server w/access to any of it at will. File server handles the majority of that now, the ‘access to’ part - where the missing piece is working w/those files on the NAS from any device.

Example of why I won’t use Apple iCloud for anything other than Find My and HomeKit.
I’m working on a new M4 Mini (dream btw, it is like Apple is finally starting to understand and bring better value at better price points) - and the MOMENT I signed into iCloud (iCloud, which is 100% OFF on every device) Apple defaults all syncing…there is a wait before you can rush to turn the million toggles off. Quick as possible I had them turned off and still, for example, Safari bookmarks, read later content etc. synced. There is no way, not that I have been able to find, to prevent or turn off bookmark and safari content syncing… this is just ONE example. You can’t control your own data and little choice. Dropbox, you can at least control it. Had problems w/iPhotos which became a hot mess no matter what I tried so bailed on that first and then the rest of it. Apple used to the company prioritizing customer choice, but not w/iCloud. Example - if you want to use HomeKit, you are forced required to turn on iCloud Keychain. iCloud Keychain doesn’t give you options of which passwords are sync’d, stored etc. Yo can’t tell iK to only sync 5 passwords…nope…passwords and content that have no business ever being in the cloud are there (and yes, need to keep passwords together in a password manager…RIP Keychain)

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RS requires it to be the app in focus on iOS to sync. Back in the day the reason was that it was an Apple requirement but over time Apple loosened up on that requirement and some apps can remain active in the background (ie. music apps.)

I had explored what you describe as your home server a few times over the years (which included remoting in via LogMeIn (those were the days) (Screens/Jump etc), even back when Apple offered the server OS and am curious how you address the following points:

  • Power failure w/File Vault enabled when remote? How can you get access if server reboots and FV is on? I have a new Mini now and same question…if FV is on then can’t use it as server it seems…meaning…you have to be physically present at the keyboard on reboot.

  • Are you only keeping a few files in RS or your digital life inside RS directories? If so, what is the setup?

• Doesn’t that mean all your content is ‘duplicated’ so-to-speak, anything sync on your Mac server is duplicated on your MacBook? I’m not wanting ‘copies’ of everything on every device, it is about ‘access to’ on every device and the reprioritized need of being able to work on files in that one spot at a home server. Selective sync helps but then you get duplicates on content selected to use on your MacBook.

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I guess I’m confused. I don’t see what problem you’re solving for. If most of files are on demand use files app or file browser pro. If you need local use drive, drive folder sync, or RS (all doing same thing). Doesn’t have to be the whole NAS.

I’m sure I’m just not understanding but doesn’t quite make sense to me what you are trying to do.

Can you describe which apps and workflows you are having issues with? Like is there a specific app you are having issues with you need help with or are you just generally unhappy with iCloud (like I think everyone is!)

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Hmm, I don’t think there is anything which offers what you want outside of Webdav. The duplicate files situation occurs with iCloud. It’s just that iCloud hides it better than other sync systems because it is part of the OS. You asked for an iCloud-like system and then reject every suggestion because it is iCloud-like (in that it makes local duplicates of files). If you truly want only one copy of a file across all devices, then that would be Webdav. Of course, that means each app you use needs to have Webdav support built directly into the app; but as you acknowledge, most apps don’t offer that and the ones that do don’t always support it well. Any workaround to that limitation is going to result in local copies of files.

For completeness, I should mention that there is one other solution; namely cloud-based office suites (such as Google docs, Office 365, etc). In this case, there is no local software; everything is run in-browser and the file is only ever on the server. No syncing needed. But I don’t think that is what you are asking about here. You seem to be expecting local software which edits remote files. Webdav is the solution for that, albeit, not a very good one. Which is why we see all these cloud-based sync systems today which make local duplicates of files, completely eliminating the need for local apps to offer any special support.

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The internal SSD is divided into two drives. The boot drive is not protected but the second drive is encrypted. So it will boot up, just not log in from the bootup code. It can then be logged in remotely from the regular login screen after services have started up.

Apple apps like Calendar and Notes sync via iCloud. Omnifocus and 1Password sync via their vendors clouds. Mail syncs via mail servers. I have two folder hierarchies syncing with RS. The first syncs my current work projects and the second does Quicken (shared with ny wife). Most files just reside on the server. I generally don’t need to access them outside the home but I do have VPN server at home so I can access my LAN while out if necessary.

You can selectively sync with RS (I think so since the service has been upgraded). I don’t do so since the bulk of my files are local to a single system.

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Hmm…never thought File Vault would actually work w/a split system. So you can boot on power failure, allows you to remote in and the rest is encrypted, which you can mount while remote? Interesting.

What threats might there be if, worse case scenario, someone gained physical access to the server? The mini boots up, no credentials. Important information remains behind the encrypted drive, got it. How about MacOS system files such as network and related passwords? Could the bad actor launch the PW or Keychain app and get access to that content?

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Presumably all the passwords (such as in the Keychain app) are encrypted as well. At least if Apple did their job correctly! Now I’m not saying that some three letter government agency might be able to gain access, but I’m not worried about that. I’ve got nothing more private than my financial information.

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Yes, gave Synology Drive a full redo on Mac and iOS based on your nudge. Thank you. Think I will create a different workflow for MacOS where I can sync edits instead of working off the raw file on Synology. This would be expected to address the ‘versioning’ issues experienced and likely a bette workflow in general. Will take time to transition and adjust. Thank you.

On the iOS side, one of the advantages of FileBrowserPro is having a single file w/easy access to any shares from NAS to OneDrive and everything in between…and it supports multiple connections at the same time.

Drive app for iOS, which I need to continue to use to adjust, seems to only have the option to connect to one account or one connection at a time. So, while at home I would connect one way, and when I am remote I need to log out, log back in under another setting connection. FBP allows me to simply tap and go.

And was hopeful a few years later we would have the ability to remotely mount encrypted shares but nothing I know of yet for that…wish Drive app supported. PIA even on the desktop.

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What am I looking to solve?

  1. Secure access to personal files from any device local/remote. ← Working (files/fbp)
  2. Apps to operate the same as they do for iCloud. Read/Write/Sync

Testing Drive by editing a document across various devices and where are some observations.

  1. SO MANY taps using Drive. FBP shortcuts and such save a lot of time Shortcuts aren’t part of the flow if inside Pages and navigating to document.

  2. Tapping a Pages doc from Drive shows preview, but doesn’t launch app to edit.

  3. If starting at Pages > Location/Drive > Team Folders > Navigate to right file (lot of taps) > open target document > edit > save ----flip to desktop, preview open target document - changes are reflected (SUCCESS!)
    Note: No way to change connection type through this pathway using Drive. Drive defaults to latest open connection and no way to switch, which can be a pia (to switch, you’d need to switch to drive, log out, log back in under the preferred connection. FBP and Transmit (as old as it is) handles this, where I can pick the needed connection point as part of the browse process. )

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Why not just mount your WebDAV folder in files, then use a VPN like OG WireGuard or tailscale. Then when away turn on VPN and you still access your WebDAV folder on iOS (or smb on Mac if you want) as if your local. Then there isn’t too logins, you negate the WebDAV safety issue etc. allows direct connection and your issue with “too many clicks.”