I think Discourse’s threaded nature is a wonderful way to self-manage when you engage. One of the key points from KillerWhale’s opening post is that Facebook has grown into a monster. I have to assume that at least one of the monstrous traits are the recent inactions that have caused advertisers to pull from the platform—ergo, this thread is fundamentally political, so I would avoid it if you aren’t keen to participate in the political side of technology.
However, it has to be said: if we’re creating a “nice, safe place,” we should be talking about these issues, as they are paramount to creating nice, safe places for everyone.
In other news (literally, though it’s an old study): apparently, in 2016, 6/10 Americans got their news from social media. Are those of you that have quit or have recently quit concerned about this element of social media use? Is it important to at least be aware of what the rest of the world is thinking about, these days?
As I said before, I don’t use FB or Twitter much anymore, but I do regularly check Reddit for news. I am aware that this is a bit of a doomscrolling habit, though it seems important to at least be aware of what the world is talking about. But maybe that’s just the dopamine talking!
The quality of the conversation is more important than listening to a lot of uninformed, vacuous and often mean spirited, to put it kindly, “commentary” and “news”. I recognize there are exceptions but as a whole, SM Is the “shallows”. There is abundant high quality information and commentary outside social media. One does not need SM to stay informed. I’d argue one can be better informed without it.
Absolutely true if you just go wherever you’re led on social media.
On the other hand, I am, without doubt, a better-informed person by being on Twitter. But Twitter, for me, is primarily a supplement to my RSS feeds, a place to find links to articles and book recommendations I wouldn’t find elsewhere, at least not nearly as easily. The list of people I follow is short, and I’ve built it carefully and pruned it vigilantly to include only people who I know are better informed and better read than I am. I never post, and it’s rare that I’m there to read anyone else’s tweets. Certainly there are amusing or interesting thoughts expressed occasionally, but I’m mostly interested in what they link to. My DEVONthink database, my bookshelf, and my Kobo and Kindle readers are jam packed with the fruits of those recommendations.
I have indeed left my initial post at “toxic” and not delved anymore into that, but I believe, as technology gets intimately intertwined with our very lives, politics cannot be left out of it entirely. Take for instance the privacy stance of Apple, our examination of what browser is private, or end-to-end encryption – these are technical, but very much political issues as they reflect opinions on society.
It’s like art. All art is political, no matter what.
However, I do agree that we can (and should, as per the rules of our good hosts) keep that to a minimum
I kindly disagree; it’s not that all art is political, it’s that everything is political
That’s the reason why I never get the argument: let’s keep this place safe, let’s leave politics outta here.
I’m more like: let’s keep this place safe, let’s talk about everything like smart adults do (btw it’s how I feel things are done here on MPU forum, no matter the topic. Well Fantastical going subscription aside ).
I do periodically think about deleting FB, but instead I really try to control what I see and do not see. The value in it for me is I live in the U.S., in Boston, and I have a GIANT family in Alabama who I am separated from geographically, but also in other ways, but I do love being in touch with them. FB is honestly the easiest/best way to do that and I can “snooze” or unfollow the egregious political posters.
I’m also in a few really niche groups that I cannot find elsewhere - one being an Armenian Genealogy group that has people from all over the world and have now run several in-person conferences based on it. And less, um, studiously, I’m in a few Rhodesian Ridgeback groups that really has helped these first 2 years of puppyhood with our giant dog.
Lastly, I work in Digital Marketing and while what I market is mostly free - it is geared toward teachers and we find SO many of them on FB. We invite them to webinars and to download our resources which are all focused on challenging teachers and students to stand up to bigotry and hatred and this year 68% of our webinar registrants came from FB lead generation ads. FB has also donated $10k to us periodically to share our resources on the platform and as a non-profit/NGO we kind of cannot pass that up.
So it’s still in the “necessary evil” camp for me, maybe someday the balance will tip.
I think all social media is designed to keep you on social media, so the company can make more money from advertisers. They are designed to give you a dopamine hit so you will stay on the platform.
A lot of the toxic nature isn’t fully understood but we are learning.I suspect in a few years we will realise how bad it is personally and for society, and start to view it as we do smoking, or driving without a seatbelt.
This part of FB’s business model has been called “algorithmic amplification” by Roger McNamee, an early Facebook business investor who later became a vocal critic. Mr. McNamee is widely published and quoted. You might consider reading his book: Zucked: Waking Up to the Facebook Catastrophe.
It is gratifying to see that more people are waking up to this.
A nice explanation of the “addictive” tendencies of social media (especially Facebook) appears in Roger McNamee’s article in Time online magazine: I Mentored Mark Zuckerberg. I Loved Facebook. But I Can’t Stay Silent About What’s Happening.
(link: https://time.com/5505441/mark-zuckerberg-mentor-facebook-downfall/)
Quote:
… the financial incentives of advertising business models guarantee that persuasion will always be the default goal of every design. Every pixel on every screen of every Internet app has been tuned to influence users’ behavior. Not every user can be influenced all the time, but nearly all users can be influenced some of the time. In the most extreme cases, users develop behavioral addictions that can lower their quality of life and that of family members, co-workers and close friends. We don’t know the prevalence of behavioral addictions to the Internet, but anecdotally they seem widespread…
I am easily distracted, waste far too much time on my iPhone and end up feeling bad because of it, especially when I am aimlessly scrolling through feeds late at night. I have been wanting to address this for a while and this thread nudged me a bit along the way. I went ahead and deleted Facebook from my phone… then Tweetbot… followed by Reeder. I then went and put a time limit of 15 minutes/day for Instagram, though I don’t spend much time on it anyway. I had started out with the aim of getting rid of Facebook alone so things escalated quickly!
I don’t know how this will pan out but I feel better already. I like and value Twitter and my RSS feeds but think that checking them a couple of times a day, along with Facebook, on my iPad should be fine. Hopefully all the time I will save endlessly checking on the same things multiple times a day can be spent doing justice to the news and magazine subscriptions that have been largely unused or towards some other, more meaningful, activity.
Delighted with that @Arthur I have only started really reading about this stuff. I am going to read that one asap. I also heard Nicholas Carr on Ezra Klein’s podcast. I like that term, ‘algorithmic amplification’ thanks for the heads up.
I did and as @Wolfie points out in his blunt but absolutely correct way. If you are on Instagram you are on FB. I don’t miss Twitter either though I didn’t think it as toxic as FB at the time. Career wise and in terms of financial benefit, including LinkedIn, none of them produced anything useful for me by the way.
This is a little off-topic, but the main reason I keep Instagram is because it’s the only way to talk to a large amount of people I know or meet. In my age group and location (26, single, big US city), it’s very common to exchange IG usernames before phone numbers, to chat on there in general (vs texting or other), and to share pictures or content with friends.
I don’t follow many accounts, mute most of who I follow, and I make sure to only go on IG to message people, but for me it has unfortunately helped my social life so much that I’ve decided it’s worth it for the moment.
FWIW I just deleted iG. When you find how to do it it’s quite easy and fast. I remember when I deleted FB they said that the account was frozen for 30 days (or so) and that if I re-logged in the account would revive…
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