I'm going to try quitting DevonThink

[anon41602260]

@MitchWagner

The latter point is the biggest concern to me. What if I come in one morning and find my DT databases have been scrambled. What then?

If the failure is because DEVONtechologies went bust and all copies of DEVONthink stopped working – the odds of your laptop dying might be greater than that event. The database stores files in their native format – DEVONthink does nothing to change the files – they are store inside a macOS package, which is basically a hidden folder. (Get rid of the .dtBase2 extension and the package is revealed.).

If the failure is because you neglected to do backups – same risk applies to documents in the file system.

[MitchWagner]

The documents still exist in the .dtBase2 database - but can the groups structure be read outside of DT?

[anon41602260]

@MitchWagner

can the groups structure be read outside of DT?

No, you’re right on that — unless of course the documents were always stored outside the database and are indexed in DEVONthink. Not a bad solution – I index documents frequently in DEVONthink – but care must be taken if documents get moved.

[MitchWagner]

Lazyweb request here: Have you written about how you use DEVONThink?

[OogieM]

@MitchWagner

What if I come in one morning and find my DT databases have been scrambled. What then?

No big deal, create a new one and just extract out the files from the package and you are back in business. Or better, recover from your backup.

[OogieM]

@MitchWagner

but can the groups structure be read outside of DT?

No, but the database is usually recoverable in some fashion anyway. I’ve deliberately destroyed the DT database but was able to use my database tools to go in and see what I messed up and fix it. Granted I was trying to se how I could recover from a catastrophic failure and yes, I did lose some indexing but nothing that was impossible to re-create.

[anon41602260]

Not recently.

[wnknisely]

That work flows sounds similar to what I do each week as a preacher. I collect notes, pdf’s from journals, create a few web archives, etc and then a written product.

And when I’m done I file it all and move on to the next week.

For what it’s worth, I found Scrivener did a great job with that. Each week I would create a new project. I could store all my notes and material there, create an outline to work from and then generate the final manuscript.

I’ve written books in Scrivener and that is really what it’s designed for, but it works just as well for short research pieces of the sort your describing.

[MitchWagner]

I have looked at scrivener and used it. Also Ulysses. Perhaps it is time to give both of them another look.

Do you use one scrivener document per sermon, or keep a running document with one folder per sermon?

I think scrivener may not use the words document and folder, but I think you know what I mean.

[wnknisely]

I use one Scrivener document per sermon. It makes it easy to file it away and be done with it when I’m finished. That part sounds similar to what you’re describing when you’ve published the article you’ve been workin on and don’t need to keep the research materials at hand anymore.

[OogieM]

@MitchWagner

Do you use one scrivener document per sermon, or keep a running document with one folder per sermon?

Not sermons and not the same but I have several Scriverner projects. 1 for an association I am an officer in where I keep the offical newsletter article I write fr them, one that is my notebook for blog posts, storage of forum positngs and other similar stuff and one that is the emergency handbook for dealing with stuff here in case of an emergency of some sort.

[MitchWagner]

Do you care or edit documents in DEVONThink or is it all in other apps?

[OogieM]

I do edit my notes in DT. All in either plain or rich text format. Things like my quarterly goals, my 1,3 and 5 year goals for each area of focus. My list of AOFs and the things that fit into them, all my someday/maybe/on hold project lists, lots of misc useful bits of info, the shopping list, book reading documents, lots of the farm stuff, hay use d and more. My most frequently used DT database is all things that are only in DT, not indexed and it’s about 4000 individual notes and items. The largest one is my email archive databse and that one is also all imported. The next largest is the Index database of my primary filing cabinet folder on my mac. I have 2 smaller databases, one of Android code which is al inside DT directly and an indexed one that contains cleaned LambTracker queries.

I have 2 database that I’m playing with right now, one is my research one that is an index of the Obsidian vault and the other is a SlipBox demo where I test out possible workflows for stuff. As I zero in on the system I will use for the research database the slipbox one will eventually be useless and be deleted. It’s a testbed or sandbox not something that will be used for real.

So for me indexed stuff is always edited in other apps and imported stuff is edited in DT because it’s all text files.

I do not do any editing in DTTG though. That is pretty much all reading only.

[MitchWagner]

This is, and always was going to be, a slow transition. For projects that started in DevonThink, I am continuing to work on them in DT.

But I’m spending most of my time outside DT now.

I do most of my work in Markdown and Word. For the Markdown part of that, I started with Obsidian, and got tired of its non-Mac quirks. It’s a great app for many people, but perhaps not for me. I put it aside.

I’m now using NVultra for my markdown editor. It’s got a lot going for it, but it’s confusing, particularly the document and folder navigation. I also looked at FSNotes, and even Ulysses. But I’d rather stick with standard document formats stored in the Documents folder of the Finder.

For navigation: The good old Finder. Also, I’ve re-installed Default Folder X, and I’ll see if that’s useful.

I’m using NotePlan for a task manager, trying it out as a possible replacement for Things. I like the idea of making freeform lists, rather than having structure imposed on me. Noteplan seems to strike the right balance between a structured task manager and a plain old text file.

The app I’m really excited about is Hook. I’ve played with that a couple of times over the last year, but it clicked for me last week. Part of my responsibility is writing the text of a weekly newsletter. I need to refer back and forth between a dozen or more Word documents and web pages while composing in Word. Hook is GREAT for that – it effectively puts a dropdown menu of all the source documents on top of my working Word document.

Hook seems to potentially bring the main benefits of Obsidian or Roam into the Finder. Neat!

Additionally, I expect that I’ll be using a hybrid system of the Finder and DevonThink for months, and Hook will enable me to put links to DevonThink documents and groups into the Finder.

I’m still using DT to archive Web pages and selected emails. I’m not making a priority out of finding a replacement for that.

[omarruvalcaba]

Since this thread reminds me of the time the whole town tried to get gum out of Lisa’s hair, my vote is for Notebooks 10. I just started using it but I love that it stores files locally (syncs via Dropbox). I imagine with a powerful search app like Alfred and/or Houdaspot you’d be set. Another benefit is that when you search your phone files will also show up on spotlight search (drag down start typing the file name). The only drawback is that you lose the ability to find similar files. I created a quick overview of the mac and ios app. The syncing issues with Devonthink on iOS are likely the reason I’ll abandon Devonthink.

Here’s a thread on the app

https://talk.macpowerusers.com/t/notebooks-app-your-experience/9770/30

Here’s a video I made just now (I forgot to show that emails can also be saved)

https://youtu.be/v74kmk4LNwY

[OogieM]

@omarruvalcaba

The syncing issues with Devonthink on iOS are likely the reason I’ll abandon Devonthink.

What sync issues? I’ve been using DT for years and syncing ever since DTTG came out with basically no problems once I got it set up.

[omarruvalcaba]

I’ve had issues with getting files to sync on iOS. Even when when does work, syncing takes a long time. Maybe I’ve just had bad luck with Devonthink. Maybe the sync time is normal and it needs to check the health of the entire database every now and then. I’ll check around to see if maybe I have some option on there slowing everything down for me. David mentioned issues with syncing in Devonthink on iOS a few podcasts ago. Users have even discussed creating Apple shortcuts to help automate syncing.

[MitchWagner]

I May use notebooks at some point, but for now I am not enthusiastic about everything buckets. I am more interested in using the right tools, and using the finder to tie everything together.

I have found DT sync to be sometimes very slow if I’m working on my iPhone and want immediate access to changed documents on my desktop. But if I am patient things eventually sync up. I find it helpful to create a document on one device, which seems to force a sync.

I have not seen that Simpsons episode. I need to look it up!

[ryanjamurphy]

@MitchWagner

The app I’m really excited about is Hook.

Just checking: do you ever find yourself missing Hook on iOS? That’s my biggest paranoia: I’ll get used to the webs of items I’m building on the Mac, and then get totally lost if I’m working from iPad or iPhone.

[ldebritto]

I’ve got the same concern!

On their forum (also Discourse, btw), @LucCogZest has pointed this out:

However, the iOS version is still on our roadmap and very much a priority this year. Some of our other Hook software development (some hinted at already, some unannounced) for macOS is also directly relevant to Hook for iOS (meaning the Hook iOS app will benefit from it). I would still rather not put forth an ETA until we have more clarity.