Making Sense Of Apple Protections For Children

I wonder sometimes too.

But I’m sure they have police, FBI, States Attorney units all over the country assigned to nothing but child molestation.

I fear most this is somehow going to backfire onto the kids. Some 90% of abusers are relatives or friends of the family. That is a staggering number.

As it is, the molestors are being warned whereas law enforcement securing a warrant with the judge’s oversight gives the cops so much more to work with as they may have the element of surprise and Apple could keep its fine reputation on guarding its users privacy.

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Yes and therein lays the problem. Convenience vs Privacy.
Linux is great but it requires “fiddling” and that’s what we appreciate so much about Mac OS. Also the Apple hardware is much better then the competition, display, battery life, trackpad and the current generation keyboards :wink:

You can make the Mac more private by not using an Apple ID or any other cloud based service. Install LittleSnitch and block everything until it breaks something then slowly undo blocks knowing what unblocking does.

Either you are going to have to sync our devices the old school way using a wire and sync manually.

Or you have to setup your own server inside your own home. I found the Synology NAS a good solution for that. However this comes at as the expense of money and time and effort. Not to forget that securing the data is now totally up to you….

I think we’ve gotten to the point where the threat landscape is such that for nearly 100% of the population, this probably results in a net decrease in security, if not privacy (assuming that anything is accessible from the Internet). The time between when a vulnerability in consumer (and enterprise) equipment is announced and when we see attempted exploitation is astoundingly short, and attempts often begin before patches have even been released. Doing it yourself feels safer, but unless you have the services of a 24x7 SOC at your disposal, it’s probably not. As in all things, there are exceptions. As with all exceptions, they’re exceptional :slight_smile:

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I’m gonna keep this thread open for now, but let’s take a breath and discuss the topic. No need to make things personal.

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The timing of this, with the government breathing down Apple’s neck, is a little creepy. I am not at all confident that this would not be used as a bargaining chip in some way. and we can look at Apple’s recent track record, major exploits, iPhone and M1 bricking bugs, and the promotion of scam apps in the AppStore. None of this inspires confidence that this could be protected from abuse.

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If, by ”bargaining chip”, you mean a way to get Congress off their (Apple’s) back, I think it’s far too late for that.

But I agree, Apple’s recent track record is a bit, er, stained.

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The neuralHash algorithm is reported to exist since iOS 14.3, and has been rebuilt in Python hosted on GitHub. Apparently it’s very easy to fool the algorithm to engineer clashes. The Twitter thread also has more information.

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Just like the Walking Dead seaon 1 reveal…

“we are already infected”

I’ve always gone for the idea of not keeping all my eggs in one basket.

With the ability to use usb sticks on iOS, this may mitigate needing iCloud? There are also options like DevonThink

For me there is a slow creep of Apple taking away my ability to secure your own device. They’ve already moved their own dial home connections to a different channel that circumvents software firewalls.

Personally, each of these decisions by Apple is another nail in the coffin that moves it along the path where privacy will cause me to ditch Apple over convenience. Perhaps Apple are hoping that by doing this slowly they’ll boil enough frogs.

In the end this is like Apple stopping you after you’ve taken photos and saying can we see the photos you’ve taken to ensure their not illegal. They have no right without probable cause. This moves the idea that you’re innocent until proven guilty to everyone’s guilty.

My overall concern is that Apple is now accessing a shed load of data. Who’s policing Apple?

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It does appear that Mother Apple may have stepped in it this time. Security expert Bruce Schneier is beating the drum and the mainstream news media is still keeping it front and center.

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2021/08/apples-neuralhash-algorithm-has-been-reverse-engineered.html

“Apple says, relentlessly, that privacy is the central feature of its iPhones. But as the photo scanning demonstrates, that’s true only until Apple changes its mind about its policies.”

So far the reverse engineering is a Reddit article and the author has yet to reveil the code for independent scrutiny.

Yet its just a matter of time before someone breaks it….

I haven’t read the Reddit article and I don’t understand everything about this yet.

The answer is so simple, it boggles my brain.

Apple should just comply with the warrants the judges issue for probable cause to search an individual’s iDevices. (My impression is they are NOT doing so and this is their crazy solution.) Correct me if I am wrong, please.

End of story.

If they did that there would not be a massive invasion of privacy, which frankly appalls me. The cops need to do their jobs which they are trained to do.

The cops know what to do. The judges know what to do. The Courts know what to do but Apple sure the heck doesn’t !

The offenders can just move the photos to an external hard drive which may make them harder to catch.

Can the Courts really use this info legally? I don’t know. I guess because it is not the government doing the unreasonable searches it may pass muster.

Do you think they are really going to go through with this?

If Apple wants to help, instead of disarming the police with funding toward certain groups making it difficult for cops to do their jobs in high crime areas, they can contribute yearly to an agency like the Center for Exploited Children (or whatever it is).

And what happens if this agency shuts down?

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Apple’s current position, I believe, is that they are unable to access any data on a phone that is locked.

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They currently cannot do this. Creating the ability to do so leads them down similar paths that the soluiton being discussed takes them down.

Also, and I think this is incredibly important: If Apple were to put provisions into iOS that would enable them to search a phone under reasonable legal circumstances in your country, it would almost certainly compell them to do the same in countries where the circumstances are far less reasonable and whos citizens have genuine and well founded reasons to fear their governments.

I don’t like Apple’s solution to this, but I can’t think of a better one.

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Contents of iDevices are locked with the passcode. Apple’s position is that there’s no backdoor to bypass that passcode, and that they won’t build one to make the FBI happy.

That said, my understanding is that Apple will hand over the contents of iCloud and iCloud backups with the proper warrant, and that they’ll cooperate in any way they’re able to.

It’s been pointed out elsewhere that other large tech companies do this exact type of scanning already. Google, Facebook, etc. Apparently this is Apple’s way to do what the government clearly wants done, while minimizing false positives. Given that the government seems to be entering one of their “let’s regulate Big Tech” seasons, it’s probably a smart move on Apple’s part.

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Ok, you “guys” make a great deal of sense. I have not come across any information that put my mind to rest.

That other tech companies are doing it, well, I expect Apple to be a cut above them and then some. That is one reason why they have a loyal customer in me. Google’s practices border on the absurd as do Facebook’s.

But seeing that Apple has pretty much been backed up against the wall… I certainly thought there must be better insight than what I’ve been reading.

At any rate, I’m going to read the responses again and I thank ALL three of you!

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On a lighter note, there is a great dystopian novel in here somewhere between two “houses” in “The Cooks” and “The Zuckers” in ruling the world based on a philosophy of Privacy vs Openness.

Almost religious in scope and how individuals cope with the power of these two houses as they attempt to shape Earth’s destiny.

If only Asimov was still alive…

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Are you a writer, Bill?

If not, you’d likely make a fine one! I like the premise.

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Oh, I wish Katie! :grinning: But no, haven’t the patience. Though I have pondered this scenario for a few years now … maybe the Earth will eventually be run by the Tech Giants and not The Politicians. Not saying that would be better …