"Nobody Should Buy the new M2 MacBook Pro"

Hardware Reviews
31

There’s only one dev whose lack of support matters — Apple.

I’m in the minority that have a very real use for Fn keys. I still use a (5250) terminal emulator daily for work. But… when I’m working, I’m at my desk, and when I’m at my desk I have an external keyboard.

I never understood it. I understand when, for example, ATP talk about how Apple never went anywhere with it, and that that is probably a very good reason that it will be going away soon, but that isn’t really a reason not to use it, such as it exists. It’s more than just group think… I also think it’s a bit of “I don’t want to get used to something if they’re going to take it away.” Except many have been worried about its imminent demise for more years than they keep any computer. :laughing:

So… just like tiny buttons on a menu bar then? More than half of the right side content of my menu bar is visual information. I can see my local weather conditions, my Bluetooth peripheral battery levels, my computer’s vital signs, how long until my next break, and the date and time. As a (very) recent convert to BTT, guess what I’m using the left side of my Touch Bar for.

Also… I’ve heard many people say they prefer the media keys to the Touch Bar. I’m firmly in the opposite camp. I have media keys on my Apple Extended keyboard and every single time I want to mute my audio, I have to stare at the keys to find the right one. By contrast, the Touch Bar mute button not only is easy to see, with no ‘F10’ legend cluttering it and wide spacing from its nearest neighbour, it also shows the current state.

32

“Owners of iPhone, iPad, iPod, Mac, or Apple TV products may obtain service and parts from Apple service providers, including Apple Retail Stores and Independent Repair Providers, for a minimum of 5 years from when Apple last distributed the product for sale.”

33

I hear what you’re saying about the current state, but that could easily be done with physical buttons like a Steam Deck. I disagree with you otherwise though.

First, it’s nothing like the menu bar. The menu bar is easily operated with a pointing device like a trackpad or mouse. You don’t need to look down to see it. It’s ergonomically positioned. The Touch Bar requires you to look away from your primary screen to gather information.

Second, as far as operations go: I do not need to look for the media keys. Just like the rest of the keyboard, I’ve learned where things are over time and can operate it blindly. Once again, I keep my eyes at the primary screen.

Third and finally: your argument would be improved if the Touch Bar was ever available on a desktop. I spend 80-90% of my time in front of a big monitor. If I switch from that keyboard to a laptop with the Touch Bar, now all my controls are inconsistently positioned and operated. It’s not good.

You are more than welcome to like the Touch Bar. If it works for you, great! But it’s a poorly implemented idea that deserved more attention and love. The same is true of a lot of things I like too, so I get it. (Heck, I’m re-playing Red Dead Redemption 2 right now, which is both the highest-rated and most terrible video game of all time, and I adore it.) But the Touch Bar is absolutely a bad hill to die on, in my opinion.

Oh, also, I say all this with respect for your contributions here. I just don’t see the group think trope, and while I think we’d all agree the Touch Bar was an interesting idea with potential, it is so under-cooked it’s basically unusable irl.

34

I’d thought this way since the launch of Touch Bar. For me, it meant that I wanted to invest in learning Touch Bar habits, customizing it, and providing feedback, so I’d be up to speed as the hardware and software improved so I could maximize its utility over several years. Apple Watch pre-Series-4 was like this for me and paid off.

35

I feel like that’s a different question though. “When I can get replacement parts” is significantly different from “when the hardware is useful”. If the Touch Bar stops being useful in reality, the availability of parts really isn’t all that relevant. :slight_smile:

36

I expect Apple will keep the Touch Bar as useful for the next 5 years as it is when you boot up an M2 MBP for the first time. No one can predict what 3rd party software developers will do.

In fact if someone besides Apple releases a device tomorrow that changes the world like the iPhone did it’s possible none of us will be using Macs five years from now. So why worry?

37

If you’re using a laptop, it’s not a lot further from the bottom of the screen than the menu bar is from the top. But I get it’s on a different plane, which takes some cognitive load to deal with.

I wonder what percentage of Mac users are touch typists? I’d say a minority but have no data to back that. I can easily deal with quiz questions that ask about letters on a keyboard without needing to look at it, and I can even type (like I am right now) without constantly looking down, but I am in no way a touch typist. I always have to look down to start typing. That I’m as good as I am is down to 40 years pecking on keyboards — something a huge proportion of Mac users will not have to fall back on.

Again… I completely understand that for a touch typist, but when at my desk I prefer an extended keyboard because it’s easier for me — no half-wide modifiers, a proper inverted T arrow key set, full height function keys (which I use as function keys for work) and a numpad for occasional use — but I simply don’t have that option on the laptop, so when I use it away from my desk I have to adapt.

Oh totally understood. This whole place is very respectful. Likewise I am posting my views because I see they are different to many others and it helps to paint a diverse picture for people to contemplate. Sometimes I change my mind, sometimes I manage to change others’ minds. Probably more of the former if I’m honest. :slight_smile:

38

Like this, you mean? Not crazy at all :stuck_out_tongue:

Screenshot 2022-07-21 at 10.10.44
Screenshot 2022-07-21 at 10.10.44858×400 48.2 KB

That’s a 2018 i7 running ‘yes’, so it’s a synthetic stress test. But the computer didnt catch fire or anything else. It simply starts throttling and performance goes south.

39

Still, kind of a low point in the design of laptop computers, don’t you think? :slightly_smiling_face:

40

Went to an Apple Store today. The new MacBook Air is beautiful. They put the M2 MacBook Pro beside the 14” M1 MacBook Pro, and the screen looks ugly with the bezel but, the computer does not look dated at all. I still like the look of the Touch Bar but the lack of MagSafe and ports is a huge, huge disadvantage - the screen with bezel is a disadvantage too. This notebook do need to die but I can understand if some people want it because of the price, TouchBar and nostalgia.

41

I also prefer an extended keyboard at the desk, but most of the keys are in more or less the same spot and I’ve never experienced cognitive load switching between those keyboards.

I think, regardless of whether or not folks are touch typist, people prefer physical buttons or keys to a software-led approach, unless the software-led approach is universally better. The Touch Bar is sometimes better, but not universally so. It’s not always a win, but few of us ever complained about physical keys before the Touch Bar came along.

1 Like
42

M2…

I really like Apple stuff. Well built, nice and macOS is my favorite OS. I bought a MBP13 the day they came out and I am really happy with it.

But sometimes I need a lot of processing power. And after looking at Mac Studio prices, I decided to go for a PC. I just can’t justify the bang/buck ratio. While on the laptop I extensively use macOS features (and Hazel, and KBM, …) on a “workstation” I just spend a lot of time in an application. Premiere, Photoshop, QGIS,…no difference in usage depending on the OS.

My rationale:

Geekbench 5 Multicore:
My M1 MBP Pro: 7286
A Mac Studio (M1 Max, 10 Cores): 12328
My PC (6+4 Cores): 10344

My M1 is a pretty solid machine. Moving to a M1 Max would give me +70% MC computing power. Moving to the PC gave me +43%. I got a i5-12600, which is a very cheap CPU. My PC: €1100. A Mac Studio (M1 Max): €2299. With the half the price difference I could have gotten an i9 and closed the performance gap.

Geekbench Singlecore:
My M1 MBP Pro: 1587
A Mac Studio (M1 Max): 1745
My PC: 1805

I improved SC performance comparable moving to M1 Max.

Geekbench OpenCL:

My M1: 19380 (the reason I was looking for more “umph”)
M1 Max: 56581
M1 Ultra: 76040
My PC: 98683

And this is the ona that made me decide against Apple. GPU performance became essential. Premiere uses it a lot, Photoshop does the heavy lifting on the GPU, a lot of data analysis is done with GPU support. A €1100 PC is completely destroying anything Apple out there. An bear in mind, the M1 Ultra starts at €4599…and has -22% OpenCL performance than vanilla PC hardware.

I have been an Apple user since the Apple II. With the move to M1 I wrote a lot of posts applauding it. But in the back of my head I was expecting M2/M3. Whatever with superior performance. Sme kind of “SoC but proper GPU”. Or whatever. For anybody working a lot with A/V, €4599 get you PCs that are beyond anything Apple has to offer in terms of GPU performance.

For my PC I bought stuff on the cheaper end of “good”. Nothing special. For very little money I can upgrade. 32GB of DDR5 memory go for €206. Upgrading 32GB on the Mac Studio €460. And after clicking through all the upgrades, I have a subpar machine. A RTX3090 graphics card with 24GB of memory goes for €1500. Which is insane, unless I look at the price differences PC/Apple to get less performace. I could have bought an i9 and a RTX3090 (OpenCL performance: 204921) for roughly half the price of a M1 Ultra Studio…and get 170% more GPU performace.

I still think Apple makes the “best” hardware. In termy of build quality, battery life, etc. I am tying this on my 10th (?) Apple laptop. I own my 5th (?) iPhone. My 3rd iPad. Had Apple desktops. And will stay with them for a long time and move on to another MBP/iPhone/iPad generation when the time comes. But in terms of computing performace…that door has closed for me.

Downside of the PC: looks like crap compared to a Mac Studio. :smiley:

I really hope “power users” (as in “need a lot of computing power”, not “fiddle with everything”) get something again. Like the real Mac Pro.

3 Likes
43

I mean, you’re comparing the base M2 to the Max and Ultra and Pro variants that haven’t been released yet, but I see your general point.

You’re forgetting that, for some, the downside to a PC is Windows. The premium is for macOS, and the Mac isn’t competing solely over power. I would have to make significant compromises to do my job with a Windows machine. It’s a non-starter for me.

But more power to you; glad you’re happy.

44

I know. I often enough use my MBP at work instead of my work laptop.

But: if I am working in Premiere, it’s Premiere. The OS doesn’t make any difference. Same Interface, same features, etc. And, since it’s exactly the same, I am starting some stuff on my MBP and finish it on the PC (synced). Especially rendering.

I know I am ranting, but I remember when Macs were right there at the top of performance. And I am willing to pay the “premium”. But there are limits… :smiley:

As for “haven’t been released”: I need to get some stuff done this month.

45

More power to you. I’m still happy with macOS and prefer the software available there.

1 Like
46

Sorry for the late replay. I think a simple gaming example might work. If I’m playing Minecraft and I have Discord open and I’m in a voice channel if I have Safari open to a video (not even playing), then my voice will become pixelated. It’s a moot issue not since a friend just purchased a Mac Studio with an M1 Max.

47

I was recently trying to acquire a MBP through my employer (for work purposes) and their list of available machines is 90% the 13” models. Presumably still selling a lot of those wholesale.

48

Rather than finding an M1 Mac to be underpowered, I would more likely blame the port from Intel to M1 architecture and Minecraft’s need to run on top of a Java runtime.

49

Ha! that’s fair. But, that’s just one example. Sometimes I’ll just have safari open with about 4 or five tabs open, Discord, Mail, 2Do, Calendar, and a few other minor things in the background when a Zoom call or even FaceTime call goes pear-shaped. And while it may primarily be a software problem rather than a hardware problem, different hardware has been able to deal with the load.

50

Absolutely! These machines run hot! I am not unsatisfied by the performance itself taking into account that it’s 4 years old, but when the weather is hot --and this year it gets pretty hot here in Spain, let me tell you-- you clearly feel the throttling kicking in.

Also, knowing that the new AS thingies would run circles on this particular generation makes them feel even more obsolete.