Reverting to Apples stock apps

[Pupsino]

Because of this forum, and also because of very knowledgable colleagues, I get more and more nervous about people using Keychain to store their passwords (it’s not really a disclaimer, but for what it’s worth I only switched to 1Password because my employer offers family use for free and I think I asked in here about people’s thoughts before moving). If one of your devices gets stolen and you get locked out of your Apple account, the chances of you getting back into that account ever seems to hover around nil. By extension, that would mean you lose access to every account you were using Keychain for, at least in the short-term until you can reinstate logins. The whole idea of this fills me with horror (I assume banks alone will take hours to sort, to say nothing of the fun and games you presumably get trying to verify your identity with new logins for Google, Microsoft, meta, etc.).

In contrast, if you’re using a third party password manager and one of your devices gets stolen and you lose access to your Apple account, that is still terrible but at least you still have access to all your logins and don’t have to worry about how you’re going to convince your bank’s website you’re the right person.

On to your actual question though, I’ve always been half and half with Apple apps.

Mail - I’ve never not used Mail (I want to switch, I just haven’t found something I’m comfortable with).

Notes - I have other apps, and dedicated uses for them, but Notes often floats around above it all out of habit.

Freeform - I love Freeform and it’s taken a lot of stuff that used to go in GoodNotes, but I really need Apple to implement folders soon. The lack of file management is becoming a source of friction for me and as I was scrolling trying to find a board this week I wondered if I was nearing my limit of it being useful until this function is implemented.

Pages - my workspace is Google, but I use Pages when I need to write up something that I’m converting to PDF.

Numbers - For personal use, I’ve used Numbers for over a decade and have some very old spreadsheets still in regular use. For work, only Excel will do.

Reminders - I keep lots of lists in there and always have done, but it doesn’t work for me as a task manager because I prefer to keep notes alongside my tasks and Reminders isn’t designed for that. That’s not a failing of Reminders, it’s just how my brain works.

My most used Apple app nowadays is Freeform, which is a bit odd when you think that it didn’t even exist a couple of years ago. I use it most days.

[dque]

@Pupsino

If one of your devices gets stolen and you get locked out of your Apple account, the chances of you getting back into that account ever seems to hover around nil. By extension, that would mean you lose access to every account you were using Keychain for, at least in the short-term until you can reinstate logins. The whole idea of this fills me with horror (I assume banks alone will take hours to sort, to say nothing of the fun and games you presumably get trying to verify your identity with new logins for Google, Microsoft, meta, etc.).

That is true if you only have a single Apple device. But take me for an example. I have a Mac Mini which is stationary. So If my phone gets stolen, I still have my passwords. But if you get locked out of 1password, your passwords would be gone as well, or do I miss something here?

[Glimfeather]

I pretty much use Apple “stock apps” as default and always have done. A non-Apple app has to have something distinctive and unique or offer truly better features for me to switch to it.

The prime non-Apple app I use on a daily basis is Scrivener. Its structuring and organisation features (the Binder) far exceed what Pages or LibreOffice — btw I don’t clean Windows — offer.

The second area of non-Apple apps is command line utilities. I prefer bash over zsh (from long time exposure to bash before zsh was a thing). While I could use the version of awk that somes pre-installed with macOS I prefer the GNU variant, especially its inbuild csv handling. Similarly sqlite3 is useful but I need more recent features than the stock macOS version. I grab these things (and others) via Homebrew. Would be useful if the Homebrew version of sqlite3 had the SOUNDEX() function but then neither does the Apple provided version. (Actually I want the much better NYSIIS scheme but would have to program that myself.) Also some programming languages that Apple does not provide; Common Lisp, prolog, algol68g for example.

[Bmosbacker]

@cehm18

oesn’t anyone pay for VPNs or antivirus software? Or reference managers like Zotero, Papers, Mendeley? Weather apps? Reading apps like Readwise Reader? Mapping or walking software? Writing apps like Drafts

VPN: my organization pays the subscription
Reference manager: Endnote, one time payment
Reading apps: Not needed, I can read on a webpage, Apple News, etc
Mapping: Apple Maps
Walking software? Maps and health app
Writing:

• Drafts (free version)
• Pages
• Scrivener (one time payment)
• iA Writer (one time payment)
• Obsidian as needed (free)
• Word (organization pays for 365 subscription)

[WayneG]

Your post reminded me of a story I read several years ago.

How Apple and Amazon Security Flaws Led to My Epic Hacking

[Glimfeather]

@cehm18

Doesn’t anyone pay for VPNs or antivirus software? Or reference managers like Zotero, Papers, Mendeley? Weather apps? Reading apps like Readwise Reader? Mapping or walking software? Writing apps like Drafts ….

I don’t use a VPN although I have some rare occasions used the Tor Browser to encrypt web access to similar effect. As for antivirus software it’s ClamAV for me. It being open source and free I don’t pay for it. (Started with it back in the days of OS Server of which it was a component.)

My reference manager is BibDesk, which is free. But it is fronted by Zotero when I need to get bibliographic data out of Amazon.

For weather I use the OpenWeather, Apple Weather, Meterological Office, and BBC Weather apps all of which are coupled with the ancient art of looking out of the window.

Reading I use either Preview or Apple Books depending on the source of the “ebook”. For plain text it’s either Firefox or good old less in a Terminal window.

For mapping I use OpenStreetMap (in a Firefox window on my Macs) or GPX Tracker on my iPhone (also uses OpenStreetMap data) and duplicated with Workout data on my Apple Watch. Some of that Watch data gets mixed with data from the NHS App. Also have QGIS installed on my Macs and the QField app on my iPhone and iPad. Boringly again open source and free.

Mentioned earlier that for general writing I use Scrivener — the only paid-for app. But for situations that require excellent typesetting I use LaTeX for papers to academic journals and similar documents. Hence the above mention of BibDesk.

[Synchronicity]

@dque

for ephemeral information I do not think it is a problem.

I agree. For ephemeral information it doesn’t matter what app you use.

[Synchronicity]

That’s a great point that updating the OS is often the only way to update to the latest versions of Apple’s stock apps.

EDIT: And that’s likely the case because from a business standpoint Apple’s “free” stock apps exist primarily to drive sales of Apple devices.

[SpivR]

@cehm18

Doesn’t anyone pay for VPNs or antivirus software? ….
I’m keen to keep ongoing costs down, but I don’t know how to replace these apps

May be too far OT, but depending on how you use a VPN, running a free Tailscale installation using an AppleTV with ‘exit node’ and ‘subnet routing’ can provide a free solution.

[Pupsino]

@dque

That is true if you only have a single Apple device. But take me for an example. I have a Mac Mini which is stationary. So If my phone gets stolen, I still have my passwords. But if you get locked out of 1password, your passwords would be gone as well, or do I miss something here?

I think you’re missing something, aren’t you? (Please weigh in other people who know about security!) If an Apple device gets stolen and the thief accesses your Apple account, all connected devices get locked (as far as Apple services are concerned), not just the device that was stolen. You wouldn’t have access to Apple Keychain regardless of device, because it would be associated with an Apple account you no longer have control of.

In this scenario, you would still have access to 1Password, because your Apple account isn’t associated with your 1Password account.

There have been media reports about people losing access to their Apple accounts through theft, etc. Apple don’t seem to do much to restore access if it’s hacked/stolen. (Before somebody pipes up about using a secure password etc., the recent rise in phone thefts in London relies on the victim using the phone when it’s stolen, thus circumventing Face ID or password protection. I’m sure other cities will be the same.)

[dque]

Many thanks for your elucidation! I would appreciate more opinions. Is this not somewhat prevented by Apple Stolen Device protection they introduced recently. If not, I am seriously concerned.

[liminal]

@dque

Is this not somewhat prevented by Apple Stolen Device protection they introduced recently.

Stolen device protection helps quite a bit and one can even add an additional layer of mitigation by going into Settings → Screen Time → Content & Privacy Restrictions and setting the options for Passcode & Face ID and Accounts to Don’t Allow (changes).

With these options set a potential thief will be unable to change the phone’s passcode or make changes to the owner’s Apple account.

Depending on one’s threat model, an additional protection for the data on an iphone would be to use Apple’s free Configurator app to create a profile with pair locking. This restricts the iphone from pairing with any other Mac (or forensic device) other than the one that it is “pair locked” to, even if the phone is unlocked.

[dque]

@liminal

Stolen device protection helps quite a bit and one can even add an additional layer of mitigation by going into Settings → Screen Time → Content & Privacy Restrictions and setting the options for Passcode & Face ID and Accounts to Don’t Allow (changes).

Just switched that back on.

@liminal

Apple’s free Configurator app to create a profile with pair locking.

I did not know that. Will possibly do it although I guess it might be an overkill for my threat level.

Thank you for the information

[liminal]

One small note of caution with the pair locking profile setup, for security reasons the process will wipe your phone or ipad. You can restore it from an icloud backup, but not from a backup on your Mac.

[speedmaster]

Great post! I mostly use stock apps. But I do use 1Password and Spark for email. I tried the stock email client and will stick w Spark for now. I LOVE Notes and use it all the time, even shared notes w family. I’m absolutely open to using the stock passwords app if it includes a family feature and has a Windows client. Using Fantastic for now but might switch to stock this year.

[Poromies]

Absolutely agree!
I have started to follow you down that route now that I have retired as my needs are simpler, and my budget is reduced. I share calendars and reminders with my family, as everyone has them and understands them. Perhaps time for contacts to be improved though.
I have recently dropped several excellent but expensive apps for which I can no longer justify the cost. I had used them for years and they were an important part of my workflow, but I made the transition smoothly and am managing perfectly well without them. Perhaps I was using them out of habit and familiarity rather than them offering anything unique?
I am now working my way through all the apps I have installed and will rationalise down to only the ones I really need. If nothing else, I will save myself money and save time spent on updates and app maintenance.

[andreamocko]

I’m all in on Apple Notes and ditched 1Password for Passwords last year after being a long time user. Calendar, Mail, and Reminders, still aren’t quite there for me to replace Fantastical/BusyCal, Spark, and Things and Journal is far from being a suitable replacement for Day One. Every WWDC I do evaluate to see what third party apps I can ditch in favor of the stock apps though, and each year I seem to need fewer and fewer third party apps.

[Bmosbacker]

I’m nearly 100% default apps supplemented with only a few third-party apps, e.g., Scrivener, Obsidian. This is a screenshot of my iPad. My MBP has the same apps on its dock.

iPad:

MBP

[webwalrus]

I think Apple apps are to software what Budweiser is to beer. It’s easily available, has a flavor that’s generally non-offensive, and thus has a decent following. If you’re not knowledgeable about the specifics of the beer world, and you need to buy one beer for a party, Budweiser is a decent choice.

But it also has detractors. A generally-non-offensive flavor is fine, but true beer aficionados want more. And they don’t all want the same thing - they want “more” in different ways. Sometimes they’re pretty loud about how much better their stuff is than Budweiser. Which is fine, because there’s a whole refrigerator case of smaller-company options right next to the Budweiser, so everybody can have what they want.

Same with the App Store.

[pantulis]

@Pupsino

I think you’re missing something, aren’t you? (Please weigh in other people who know about security!) If an Apple device gets stolen and the thief accesses your Apple account, all connected devices get locked (as far as Apple services are concerned), not just the device that was stolen. You wouldn’t have access to Apple Keychain regardless of device, because it would be associated with an Apple account you no longer have control of.

As far as I know, the device would need to be unlocked to make changes to the associated iCloud account, which would require biometric authentication (given that you have a strong PIN), but perhaps I’m missing some scenario.