I wonder when Apple will update the AirPod Max. I’ve not purchased them yet as I’ve been waiting for the upgrade.
From the Verge:
Ironically Sonos’s big feature of swapping between your Sonos soundbar and the headphones is something all of us Apple TV users have had for years with Airpods.
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Really confused by MacRumor’s title. Shouldn’t the Ace be released before we make comments like that? We need a lot more than a 10 minute controlled listening party.
I own some AirPod Max and I use Sonos speakers daily. So I have a lot of thoughts on this.
First we really need some long term impressions of the Sonos Ace before we start comparing them to the Max. One thing Apple nails on the AirPod line is the listening modes and sound quality (for the most part), especially on the Max. Noise cancelation and transparency mode are awesome. We need to see with the Ace, because other companies fail in this area. We need people people flying with them, etc.
As an owner I have 2 complaints with the Max. 1) Lightning connector. 2) They kind of get uncomfortable across the top of my head after a few hours. Many people complain about the comfort and weight, so maybe Sonos nails that area, but we need to see. The Ace are lighter, but there is more than just the weight. I love the Max, and I am not sure what they need to improve outside of comfort since most people do complain about that (but I feel it got a little overblown by first impression hot takes).
The Sonos app has a long history of being a PITA to use. They just redesigned it and removed features, and everyone is up in arms about. The app has always been functional, and the speakers mostly “just work” but I avoid the Sonos app if I can. Sonos is not great at software. Apple is. AirPlay is what saves Sonos’s poor software. (And it is better than Chromecast by a mile as well in my experience.)
Sonos is know for sound quality with everyday people but when you hear/read audiophiles reviews (who may be full of it), Sonos is ok. Not bad, not great. With headphones they are an unknown quantity, and there are a LOT of headphones out there to compete with at that price. Sonos does nail the TV stuff, I can say that first hand, but we need to see on these.
I do agree that seems odd that there is not a Max 2 yet. But I think Apple learned their lesson. Regular people buy AirPods and HomePods, but they have a lower price ceiling. Apple tries to do high end audio products, but the prices scare off the regular people who don’t want to spend that much, and the audiophiles are not buying Apple’s products because they have a wealth of better products on the market.
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The AirPods Max are the best in the ANC market if they work on your head. For me, they’re the ones that can be worn 8+ hours with the most consistent concentration during.
Sonos’ entrant looks nice but probably not quite it for me. I’m happy for Sonos people; every ‘ecosystem’ needs something like this for it. 
My understanding is audiophiles would never reach for an ANC, closed-back product; the physics fundamentally limit audio quality.
My AirPods Max 2 wishlist: lossless audio and a physical mute/auction button.
Audiophiles still need something when they travel. I don’t follow headphones as much as regular hifi, but I have seen a couple of YT audiophiles wearing the Max when out and about. The headphone guys though? Yeah I don’t think they would touch them.
I have a large Sonos install at home, and I sell and support Sonos for a lot of clients, and until the app upgrade fiasco, have been a big Sonos fan.
Sadly, I think the Sonos Ace will flop.
It is a me-too general headphone in the pricey ~$500 range. Limited to plain vanilla Bluetooth audio when connected to iDevices, and does have slightly better audio when connected to Android because it can use the higher quality APTX bluetooth codec.
Most significantly, it falls down as a Sonos ecosystem device. It does not appear as a Zone (what Sonos calls each independently controllable Sonos Speaker or Amp).
It is only Bluetooth. Many Sonos fans were expecting it to also have built-in Wi-Fi with some Sonos magic/tricks of roaming through the home, and synchronized playback with Sonos Soundbars and other devices.
As introduced, if you switch TV audio to Sonos, it silences the Soundbar. That’s a big miss for hearing-impaired, older people where you want to have the regular TV on a normal volume and have headphones for the person or persons that want to listen much louder.
No multi-user (can’t have several people each with headphones connected to the tv at the same time).
Unless they improve the features significantly, I will continue to advise my clients to buy other, any other, headphones and connect them to their TV with Bluetooth, which almost every new-ish TV supports.
Audiophiles and professional audio folks will continue to use their choice of headphones. Personally, I’m staying with Sony MD7506’s for audio editing because for $100 they have very flat audio response and are an industry standard without jumping up to $500 or $2000+ phones.
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The new Sonos app also removed lots of accessibility support for disabled people. I will never support a company that doesn’t value disabled people equal to everyone else.
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You can use a cable, so anyone who cares about quality is just going to hook it up physically to their phone. Which is odd for a Sonos product I guess. But I write all of this off as first gen stumbles.
You’re not wrong however, with Sonos Ace technically you’re not constraint by a single source (Apple TV). If you’re using any Sonos soundbar (Just Sonos Arc for now) in ARC mode, you will be able to enjoy that functionality.
It looks like they followed Apple’s lead and didn’t include a power button. If so, that would be most unfortunate. I hate not having a power button on my Airpods Max
There is an off button.
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I for one am rooting for these Sonos headphones. First, I love the company’s products, so I hope these do well. Second (and most important for me), I want new AirPod Max headphones, and I love competition in the area. Apple has left the Max product out there far too long without an update and they are grossly behind the AirPods Pro.
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How so, what is the difference? I think the Max are near perfect, but I like over-the-ear much better than in ear.
Something I was thinking about, I wonder what the Sonos Apple user to Android user ratio is. I would guess it has a higher Apple user base, just because they are expensive, and Apple customers seem more willing to spend money on higher-end products (not all, but most of the Android users I know, use them because they are cheap). So for headphones designed to be used when not at home they are competing with the AirPods, and that will be a tough battle.
Sonos also has the reputation of being extremely slow to release a new product (headphones were ‘5 years in the making’ according to interview with their CEO) and take forever to release any upgrades or enhancements to their hardware.
Don’t get me wrong, Sonos makes great distributed audio products, and they have often been called “Apple-like”, but ever since their new CEO took over a few years ago, they haven’t been the same and put the search for profits ahead of everything else they were known for.
With the absolute s* storm new app and other issues, many consumers are extremely angry, and everyone is starting to look at much lower cost alternative much more seriously now.
Full disclosure: I’m still sticking with them, for now, for their core products, but portable BLE devices, headphones, and any other products not really in their lane I’m staying far away from.
You know what they say about social media, the people who are happy with it don’t get online to talk about it. Personally, I think the app is a step in the right direction (but the old app was bad as well), and they have already said they are going to fix the accessibility options they removed.
Since I have gotten into Hi-Fi, I have found there are a ton of devices that do this kind of thing. I have a Wiim Pro Plus with some good active speakers that work perfectly for streaming with AirPlay. I think it sounds much better than my Sonos stuff. My set up is cheaper than my two Sonos Fives. If you want to spend a bit more money you can get even better streamers with nice displays. The only thing Sonos really has going for it above the competition is that it is an easy all in one solution. You don’t have to think about it and it works great out of the box.
As I understand it, the noice canceling is different (I mean, I can surely tell a difference in quality and comfort…the AirPods Pro do a much better job of noise canceling without that “pressure” feeling). Also, I think the APP do a better job at noice canceling intelligently (anecdotal).
Also, features like conversation detection and adaptive modes are missing.
Finally, comfort. I think they need to lighten up the AirPods Max a bit.
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Not quite. You can send the audio from your Apple TV box to your AirPods, that much is true, and is very useful. I use it all the time.
But, as I discovered by waking my wife up late night, if you use any other source than an Apple TV — say, a Blu-ray player — the audio is coming out your TV, speakers, surround system, whatever, and not your AirPods.
The Sonos Ace, by comparison, can shift all audio from your TV to the headphones. (Assuming you have an Arc soundbar, at least.) Valuable if you use source devices besides an Apple TV.
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There is a lot more to this - routing audio to Bluetooth - and some subtle issues.
First and foremost - Sonos is very opinionated and has always considered their audio the only thing that counts. They have grudgingly accommodated line-in and line-out sources and sinks, and when they finally started making soundbars, they supported HDMI audio from the TV or streaming box.
BUT - and this is the big one - Sonos does not support multiple inputs and switching on any of their soundbars. They all have a single HDMI input and no pass-thru output HDMI ports.
That means you must connect other devices (Bluray/DVD players, Gaming consoles, other media boxes) to the TV itself and use the TV as an external “HDMI switcher” with the TV remote.
(Or use other external HDMI switching devices).
This results in Sonos losing the “one remote” simplicity and no ability to control the inputs from Sonos directly.
If you have multiple inputs and want to switch them to Bluetooth for headphone or quiet listening, with Sonos you will still be juggling multiple remotes.
Many people that has played with more complicated multi-device setups probably know that HDMI/CEC control can be flaky along with eARC so constantly changing switching devices routing into the TV and then back out via eARC is a recipe for nagging problems cropping up at the most annoying times.
In this case, many, many people are very, very unhappy.
Many former Sonos advocates either have or are turning away from Sonos because after almost a year many things still aren’t fixed and the quality of the software is said to have tanked. From products that were rock solid, they’re a mess.
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As a pro installer / consultant, I used to unequivocally recommend Sonos for distributed audio and TV audio solutions. No longer.
Their ongoing problems are a serious threat to their continuance as a viable company.
It took them more than a year to fire the incompetent CEO and portions of the senior staff.
Sonos watchers are hopeful the new mgmt can turn the ship around, but the jury is still out.
I still help clients support existing Sonos systems to keep them running, but I cannot recommend any Sonos products—there are just too many issues.
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