Sonos / Symfonisk AV setup

[webwalrus]

I have a regular TV with an Apple TV 4K puck, and a single Symfonisk speaker. I’m finding that the Airplay from the ATV to the Symfonisk - especially when using it as a second speaker, in addition to the TV - can be incredibly inconvenient to use and flaky. The suggested solution I’m finding is to wire a Sonos-capable soundbar to the ATV or the TV itself, and have the Symfonisk be an additional speaker on that Sonos configuration. That way AirPlay is out of the mix as far as the ATV is concerned, and it’s just a regular speaker.

Is this a sane way to proceed? If so, what would you suggest as the best “budget” option for that wired Sonos soundbar? We don’t need super-fancy audio, but we like a bit more than what the TV puts out by itself.

Thoughts?

[SpivR]

A soundbar, such as Sonos, with HDMI/ARC connection to the ATV will be the best solution.

You get wired/synchronized audio, and the HDMI/CEC controls (depending on the soundbar) gives you integrated control of volume and power on/off from a single remote.

Sonos creates its own wireless connection between their soundbar and additional rear surround speakers and subwoofer (if you choose to buy/use surrounds and/or subwoofer).

The only reason I can’t wholeheartedly endorse Sonos any more is because of the company’s huge problem with their app rewrite which they are still trying to dig themselves out from.

If you know, then fine, if you don’t, do a lot or research and set expectations that you are still effectively using a beta product.

On the positive side, the Sonos home theater setup you are discussing, using mainly soundbar and optionally rear surrounds/subwoofer, is very solid and doesn’t require the Sonos app for anything other initial setup.

A soundbar alone will give much better sound than any tv’s built-in speakers (law of physics - modern flat screen tv’s have tiny speakers and audio is all about moving air volume).

Soundbar versus a pair of HomePods (big ones, not little ones) is debateable. I feel the soundbar is still superior and as you have seen, single or paired HomePods (Big or small) rely on standard Wi-Fi for the audio connection which can be flaky.

Having said all that, if going with Sonos, avoid the entry-level Sonos Ray, it is junk. Sound is not great, and it connects with optical cable, not HDMI.

The Sonos Beam is ok, if on a budget a decent choice, but get the V2 generation.

The Sonos ARC is a little pricey, but huge improvement over the Beam. If budget conscious, consider getting the older Sonos ARC model, not the current flagship Sonos ARC Ultra. A few features will be missing, but most of us with Sonos ARC’s are not rushing to replace them with Ultra for only incremental benefit.

e.g. the new “AI voice” feature just announced that is supposed to do a better job of isolating dialog/speech versus the existing “dialog boost” that most audio gear has now.

P.S. Sonos is modular, so can start with just the soundbar and in the future add the rears and/or the subwoofer. Allows budgeting over a few years instead of all at once.

[airwhale]

@SpivR has covered a lot of ground here, and I agree that using HDMI/ARC (audio return channel) out of your TV into the speaker is definitely a stable way to go.

We are using the Sonos AMP as the main driver for our TV audio and use “traditional”, non-powered speakers in a 2.1 configuration. This has been working flawlessly for years and without any impact from the Sonos App fiasco. The HDMI audio delivery is taking precedence and is automatically activated when a signal is present. Volume is also controlled via the Apple TV remote as well as the TV remote via the CEC link.

(Of course, streaming audio to the AMP and other Sonos devices has affected us just as much as any other Sonos user )

All this to say, “yes, I think this is a sane way to proceed”.

[John_Shelburne]

I had the impression that I was one of the few who struggled with speakers and connectivity. The primary reason I wanted to get a Sonos system was its wireless connectivity. However, I realized that my man cave is surrounded by numerous wireless signals or the application rewrite bugs were causing the system to malfunction. To address this problem, I decided to experiment with hardwiring all the Sonos speakers to the network. This simple change brought about a significant improvement in the system’s performance. The experience was flawless once the speakers were wired up. However, I must admit that I now have an abundance of ethernet cables scattered throughout my man cave.

[airwhale]

Ethernet beats WiFi every day of the week for performance and reliability. WiFi is convenient, but affected by our physical surroundings.

One weird thing with Sonos is that if you mix Ethernet and wireless on your devices, it will force the use of “Sonos Net”. This is some kind of “Sonos mesh” (to the best of my understanding). It does not care about your local WiFi at all. Took me a long time to figure out. I had access points sitting a few feet away from the speakers and they could not get a clean signal. That was apparently because the other Sonos devices was too far away. I had hooked a single device to Ethernet and it messed up the whole setup.

I don’t know what’s in these walls, but it sure is hostile to WiFi.

[SpivR]

Sonos supports three kinds of network connections - Wired Ethernet, Sonos Wireless, and standard Wi-Fi.

It gets pretty complex and probably not the right place to explain it all, but basically standard Wi-Fi is where the speakers acts as regular Wi-Fi clients, just like any other device (computer, laptop, iPhone, other IoT devices).

Sonos Wireless is a proprietary protocol that uses standard Wi-Fi hardware, but non-standard protocols. It used to be built into all Sonos devices, but newer Sonos devices now only support standard Wi-Fi and do not support Sonos Wireless.

Sonos makes a small bridge device (roughly the size of an Apple TV) that acts as a range expander for Sonos Wireless mode.

Keep in mind that Sonos pioneered residential mesh Wi-Fi as Sonos wireless long before Eero or anyone else even had the idea. So it is very old and thus has issues running with modern Wi-Fi gear without having some problems.

Simplest rule if you need to have some Sonos speakers on a wireless connection - connect exactly one Sonos speaker to Ethernet, keep all the rest wireless.

Advanced rule - If using Sonos wireless, make sure all your wired Ethernet switches are managed switches, not dumb switches, and re-configure them to use the older STP (spanning tree protocol) and not the newer, usually default RTSP (rapid spanning tree protocol).

Ubiquiti UniFi Wi-fi, very popular with prosumer people and Sonos users, by default, uses RTSP and this often the cause of the biggest issues running wireless Sonos.

Sonos Home Theater mode, e.g. wireless surround speakers, wireless subwoofer driven by a Sonos soundbar in a single room, is a completely different wireless system. SHT uses 5 GHz mode Wi-Fi with Sonos proprietary protocol for synchronized, low-latency. It is fine to use SHT when otherwise using wired Sonos or other wireless Sonos as they are different systems.

Ok, I lied, I did just give a more detailed explanation of most of the Sonos issues and considerations when operating Sonos wireless speakers than a quick summary.