Stop Using Your Task Manager as a Project Manager

OK - I’ve made a career as a project manager, and I’ve found this discussion interesting. For what they’re worth, here are my thoughts.

“Project” means different things in different circumstances - me building a bookcase is a project; me with.a team of 40 rebuilding systems and processes for finance, HR and payroll for a university is also a project. It’s pretty obvious that one wouldn’t use the same tool for both and there’s no need to spend much time explaining why. So it seems to me that the debate is much more about bookcases than finance systems and processes so that’s the direction I’ll take. Feel free to disagree.

The point’s been made (most recently be @Leo) that for many small projects, full-blown project management tools are overkill, and I think that’s true (aside: I wish people would stop assuming that “full-blown project management” equals “Gantt chart”. Gantt are very helpful in visualising, viewing, presenting a set of interconnect tasks and dependencies; they, in my long and varied experience, a lot less useful in actually planning and managing projects. But I digress). The question becomes how to decide when a task manager is OK and when something more is needed. More on that later.

The other (than choice of tool) major factor is personal working style. When organising themselves for a project, some people like to work down from a high level view of the overall goal and shape and then deriving a task list; others like to start by getting a list of known tasks down and fitting them into a pattern. And so on. One picks the tool to fit one’s needs. If I’m building a bookcase, I’ll probably go bottom up - decide number of shelves, measure, buy wood and fixings, cut and shape wood, assemble, finish. I can do all that in a task manager and I see no good reason why I shoudn’t. It’s easy and accessible and works.

If I’m planning a major project I’ll go the other way - define the goals, identify resources, major constraints (time, people, money etc), major dependencies and risks, draft a high level plan and refine recursively until there’s something actionable. I can’t do that in a task manager. I’ll generally use mind mapping at the first stage and then expand nodes of the map using notes applications. Only at the final stage (something actionable) will I use “project management” software.

Out of my actionable plan come sets of tasks. I’ll manage my own in a task manager, because now I’m running a task list, as is everyone else on the project. Periodically, we reconcile the status of our tasks lists with the overall status and needs of the project. We don’t combine the two (aside: I don’t want automatic integration between tasks lists and project data. I know many people do, but my own experience is that (a) people find themselves working around the integration, either because ti doesn’t work well or because they’re deliberately trying to fudge the data and (b) there’s no substitute for the critical intellectual process of actually looking at where you are and what you have to do.).

So - my conclusion is:

Use a task manager when you know the overall shape, goal, structure of your project, whether that’s in your head (bookcase) or written somewhere in a plan.
Use something else when you don’t.

That turned out longer than I intended.

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Spot on. I’ll reinforce the “planning” aspect of Project Management that upfront and monitored during the execution of the project is cost (spent but more importantly “togo”), schedule with forecasts Vs baseline, quality, and risk (both positive and negative uncertain events) management.

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This is an excellent post.

With a bookshelf, you know exactly what the project it going in. You can get right to work knowing what you need to do. You need wood for shelves, tools, fasteners, varnish or paint. Put 'em all together, it’s a bookshelf.

With more complex projects, you don’t even know what the project is. You know you have a problem that needs to be solved. You may not even have a clear sense what the problem is. The accounting department seems to be taking too long generating quarterly reports. The solution is … new leadership? New hires? New business processes? New software? If it’s new software, do you build it or buy it? If you buy it, from whom–and is there benefit to customizing it?

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Indeed. Basecamp has a nice tool for visualizing that kind of project. I suppose you could mimic it with tags in a task manager, but not nearly as powerfully or simply.

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Very true. The core of successful projects (IMO) is a clear view of the desired outcome - if you don’t have it, how on earth do you know when your project is done?. Getting to that can take a lot of work and time in the first place. More important, to me, is that it can change over the life of the project - external factors, internal constraints and project challenges can all mean that what you wanted/needed when you started isn’t what you want/need by the time you finish. Keeping that changing dynamic in view throughout is something that a task manager can’t help with - and even many “project management” tools can’t. For example, a Gantt chart can show you how far our diverging from what you were trying to do, but not how far you’re diverging from your outcome.

The purpose of any of these tools is to organise information for you to be able to make decisions. If the tool doesn’t contain the information, it can’t help. In any case, none of them are a substitute for your own time and attention.

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Here is an app that gives you a kanban style view into your Things database.
https://kanbanview.app

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I’ve been thinking about this issue a lot lately.

It is particularly challenging in pure “thought” “projects.”

For instance, I have to push my various research streams forward. There’s really no definitive finish line, nor are there even well-defined objectives or outcomes along the way.

Those things are all really post-hoc phenomena: after I hit upon an insight, I know what the project is. But managing the pre-insight process is really the hard part.

I’ve begun thinking about this in terms of asking and answering questions. Instead of projects and programs, I have streams of these questions and answers, roughly in a Data-Information-Knowledge-Wisdom hierarchy.

I haven’t systematized this at all yet. Still, the realization that the majority of my “real” work doesn’t fit well within project management paradigms has been freeing.

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Related: one of the key GTD realizations I’ve had recently is that you really only need one next action for any given project.

Trying to map out more than one next action might not even fit with David Allen’s natural planning model. This is particularly true in volatile/uncertain/complex/ambiguous projects (like those this thread is veering towards emphasizing).

Do your task/project management efforts ever feel like moving deck chairs around the Titanic? I think that happens when we go too far in “project management.” The only task that matters is trying to turn the ship (and maybe launching life boats, radioing for SOS…). You don’t need to plan what happens after that. Maybe well-laid plans would help if all goes well, but they won’t matter if you spend so much time planning that you forget to dodge the iceberg.

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The best plan for the Titanic involves NOT hitting the iceberg in the first case.

This seems like the start of a profound metaphor. It needs work. :slight_smile:

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“First, do no harm” as Hippocrates said quite some time ago

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This. So much this. It’s unbelievable how many times I’ve seen something along the lines of “I’m doing GTD using a shared list” or “I’m doing GTD, and my boss can add tasks to my lists” - and it never works because it can’t work.

A boss can delegate responsibilities, and you can wind up with responsibilities assigned to you after a meeting. But what that looks like in your particular context - and thus your tasks and next actions - is specific to you.

“Call Jane about widget pricing” might be something Dave from accounting could do with no prep, but maybe you need to “review widget pricing history” or “talk to engineering to find out the non-negotiable widget specs” before that call.

Having somebody with the ability to drop non-actionable next actions in your system completely defeats the point. David Allen acknowledges this numerous times. His concept is that everybody will have their own system - not a huge corporate monstrosity that’s centrally-managed.

From a pure GTD standpoint, you’d need one next action for every part of a project that can be moved forward currently. If you need to talk to Dave, Cindy, and Sharon to move the ball forward, and the order doesn’t matter, you’d want all three of those actions in your system so that you have the opportunity to move things forward if you run into any of them for any reason.

But regarding next actions on a particular thread, I think this is spot-on. The more of GTD I read, the more I see next actions as the proverbial “flag in the ground” indicating where to start, rather than an exhaustive plan. The intent of GTD seems to be:

  • Pick up a project by grabbing a Next Action
  • Starting there, you do a non-zero amount of work on the project and let things unfold naturally
  • When you’re done, you record NAs so you have a place (or places) to start next time

The main reason to record dependent actions (not Next Actions, by definition) beyond the first one is if they come up somewhere in the natural planning model, such that it would likely be silly to not record them.

“The best plan for the Titanic would’ve involved a minor course correction about a mile before the iceberg.” ?

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Thanks for this. I’m about to head into the corporate world again for some contract work and am trying to decide to go all in on Office (which I don’t mind, tbh) as that is what they use. If I also use it for my personal stuff, my thinking is I’ll have one system, which can be useful. But, yes, if people can add to my system without structure that can cause friction.

So I may decide to keep the two systems completely separate. My personal life isn’t that complex/complicated: “coffee eat sleep run golf repeat” :joy:

I keep a task manager (2Do) and a project manager (Toggl Plan). The task manager is just mine, but it also - key feature - has durations for tasks. The Project Manager may be shared (view only, or edit) with whatever clients I’m working with. It also has a daily duration total for the tasks assigned to me. That way, when the workday starts, I only have to add up the two numbers to make sure I haven’t overloaded my day.

I know everyone has their different methods of what works for them, but I don’t understand how so many people are able to get by without “duration” as an important part of their task/project management workflow. Not all tasks are created equal!

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Don’t give in to the decisions they make for you at work (unless you decide you want to!) Everyday at work I programmed on Unix and Windows. But in my personal life I did what I wanted and enjoyed my Mac and iPhone.

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I used to have a job where the expectations (not mine - theirs) were that the boss would delegate “tasks” in Outlook. Other than the fact that Outlook is a miserable task manager, the tasks were worse than useless because “launch new _______ system” would be a single project line.

If you’re going to let other people put stuff into your system, structure or not, make sure you can annotate, clarify, create sub-tasks, mark things as complete yourself, etc. Otherwise you’re signing up for a trip to the looney bin eventually.

Random current “not-directly-related-but-close” example - calendar events. I’m part of a group that does all their calendar stuff in Teams. So I’ll add the event to my iCloud calendar, and it’ll drive me nuts because I can’t change anything about it.

For example, I’ll get an event invite called “Group meeting”. I would LOVE to be able to flip the title to something like “XYZ Group Meeting re: Widgets”, but as far as I can tell…no. So I wind up having to “accept” the invite (due to the organizer notification), leave it on my calendar, and create a second identical event that has the proper name and appropriate notes.

It gets tiresome fast. :slight_smile:

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100% agree with this! I create tasks with specific outcome actions, time required, medium (meeting, email, call etc), when and who. If I do this it minimises friction when I get to the task. Makes for a great day most of the time.

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Can I ask how often you’re incorrect about duration?

I know estimating duration of things is something most people seem pretty bad at.

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Early on in my career I was very bad at it. Everything took much longer than I thought it would. Even now, for a very new kind of task, it can be tricky to get right.

Even so, I’ve learned to be pretty good at it. For “deep work” (hard, thoughtful tasks), I never do more than 75 minutes of consecutive work anyway. Then I mix in some shorter tasks (quick wins). For those, it then simply becomes a question of “how many blocks will I need?”

I schedule the first block or two long before the deadline. After them, I have a pretty good idea of how many more blocks I need to get it done.

For shorter tasks, I don’t assign any duration shorter than 10 minutes (e.g. responding to an email). Most tasks get either 15, 30, or 60 minute assignments. It’s not too hard after some experience to get it right. When in doubt, go with the longer duration. It’s easy to make use of the extra time when you overestimate how long something will take. If you underestimate too much you’re just screwed.

I also keep a log of the times I was really, really wrong. I use those for lessons learned about what I wasn’t considering in my calculation.

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Similar to @Jezmund_Berserker but I also try to “beat the clock” with my estimations. Not to add stress (GOTTA beat the clock) but this helps me get better at estimation. Early on I’d be out by quite a bit. Now I’d say I’m within 5 - 10 mins on longer tasks. If a task is new to me, I’ll definitely over estimate and learn from there.

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Duration is absolutely critical for me, and a consideration for any project that I take on. As someone who is neuro-atypical (ADHD) my brain treats task importance as either “now” or “not right now”. This often means significant progress on projects is lost until they become “in-your-face-it-MUST-be-done-NOW” type emergencies.

By adding duration to my tasks (usually in the form of 30-45 minute chunks) I can create an artificial “NOW” condition for my brain to latch onto and make regular progress on tasks.

Tasks sitting in a bucket are meaningless to me, because without knowing the time cost of each item or at least an estimate on such, they all seem enormous and I’ll procrastinate on getting even small items done.

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