The new Fantastical

I’ve been trialing Fantastical 3 and am curious if others have these issues and whether they were present in Fantastical 2:

  • a few missing calendar events on one or two devices—I’ve been told by support it’s due to their Google API key hitting limits and should be resolved soon.
  • sluggish horizontal scrolling through the week view with 2-3 calendars visible.
  • On calendars with 20-30 delegates, crippling slowdown after changing the list of synced delegates (something that I do many times a year at work.) Most noticeable on Mac.
  • Unresponded-to invites badge being slow to update. The notification arrives a lot sooner (but is easy to miss, as recently discussed!)

And then a couple UI/feature items I hope I’m overlooking:

  • No large modular Watch complication is as readable as the default Calendar’s; the closest I can find uses a ton of space on a Gantt style multiple calendar view. Happy to use stock calendar but then I can’t quickly tap to see the calendar sets I’ve configured.
  • No 50 minute default duration support. 45 does not work for that because people don’t see it as an “hour-long“ meeting.
  • No quick way besides inviting to make an event on two calendars or clone an event in iOS—again, hoping I’m just missing it.

There’s a ton of power here so please don’t see this as nitpicking. :slight_smile: Just looking to make the most of the trial.

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I agree somewhat. I think some of the podcasters are getting a bad look. Subscribe or don’t, that’s awesome. What gets me is the transition process. I remember when Ulysses switched how mad people were (I was one), but they had a solid blog post and clear plan for what was coming. I feel like the communication in this transition is the bad part. I still don’t really understand what I get for free of if I can continue to trust my purchased version (maybe that’s on me). What works, what doesn’t. Change is crazy, even with the best PR people and plan, and this is not an example of that it seems.

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I think people are emotional because Fantastical is a great app.

If you don’t want the premium features, then don’t subscribe. It’s very simple.
I had no idea how much fuzz this thread would initiate.

I’ll admit I haven’t read every word of every post in this thread, so if I’m off base, well, don’t flame me, ok?

It seems to me that many of us are not so upset that Fantastical (and others) suddenly (?) switched to a subscription model, rather it is the perception that they were maybe kinda underhanded about it. While this is certainly possible, it’s also possible that they just bungled it. Having been in the software business, I can tell you this happens more frequently than you might imagine.

Fantastical in my opinion just got the worst of the worst sentiment against the subscription-model that we have seen increasing over the years. People are angry because it’s a calendar app. But its so much more than that which David’s videos really show

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Subscription model for apps not providing a sophisticated continuous service is hopefully unsustainable. Fantastical is a good app, but this anti-customer move is rightfully criticized and lets hope the developer will feel it so more apps will adopt the approach of Agenda developers.

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I feel like one of the major issues here is messaging.

I’ve been reading through random posts/complaints and some of the newer 1 star reviews and some/a lot of these people, assuming that they are posting in good faith, are complaining about missing features that they never had to begin with but assumed that they did.

Take the most recent 1 star review right now. The person is complaining about losing the ability to change “which day the week started” that they swear they used to be able to do but now can’t because it’s a premium feature.

Well, that review is factually wrong. You can still set the first day of the week to be Monday or Wednesday or any day. That hasn’t changed and it does behave as it did in v2.

The option is still there, except that right under it there is a new premium option called “start week view on.” This one effects the new week view that v2 didn’t have. And for someone who doesn’t follow iOS blogs, twitter, podcasts, etc, which are the majority of people, it’s really easy to understand how this confusion came to be:

What is a “week view?” It lets me view a week in a calendar? Well, that seems like a basic thing that every calendar should have so I feel like I’ve had it before. Oh wait, it wants me to pay money to change the start of the week. I know for a fact that I was able to do this for free because I live in Europe(/USA) and was able to set Monday(/Sunday) as the first day. Those bastards are ripping me off.

See how easy it is to misunderstand, especially when you present the premium subscription features right next to the standard features/options that were already there, with confusing names?

I’m not putting the blame solely on Flexibits because the consumer has eyes and can read, but from where I stand it doesn’t seem like Flexibits did enough with the messaging.

Another major complaint I’ve seen is the “removal” of the ability to see 6 months at a time on iOS, ie the new 2 column/6 months view. I am 99.9% certain that this view didn’t exist before on iOS. It’s absolutely available in the stock Calendars app though, so I can understand people easily confusing the two apps. Still, the messaging just isn’t there that the 2 column/6 months view is new, especially because the first version of v3 on iOS let you see a glimpse of this view if you pulled down on the day ticker for a second before throwing up a premium subscription window.

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I think the major issue is pricing. $4.99 (or €5,49) per user per month is a lot of money for a calendar. Not matter how nice or fancy it may be. At least for me. And as it seems for a lot of other (former) users. I do regret that I picked Fantastical a few weeks ago, instead of BusyCal.

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For me that’s indeed a major issue. If it was $1/month, subscribing would have been a no-brainer for me.

But maybe it’s also the direction they chose? Personally I don’t need all those new Premium features with recurring costs for Flexibits (weather, “interesting” calendars, event proposals).

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Yes that’s a lot for a calendar app if that’s all that that particular calendar app did, calendering, if that’s even a word. Certainly it’s in the name that FANTASTIcal is more than just a calendar app.

Fantastical 3 is ok. I don’t need the premium features so the subscription didn’t bite, and anyway it’s a choice: get these things for $this amount. When I updated v2 to v3 the splash screen told me I got to keep my v2 features – so that felt like kind consideration and respect on Flexibit’s part.

So, I’m happy with what I got.

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I watched David’s Field Guide (thanks for giving that to us, David). I got interested but then ran into a problem. I have 2 devices running iOS 13. I have a Mac running Mojave with Fantastical 3 and one running High Sierra (it’s a 2011 Mac Mini that’s dead-ended at HS) that I have installed Fantastical 2 on since it appears that Fantastical 3 will not work with High Sierra. I have a license for Fantastical 1 and I have a subscription for Fantastical 3.

One of the big points for me was the ability to integrate tasks with calendars. I have more tasks with reminders than I do calendar events, but it’s nice to have them all there. Problem: It looks like Fantastical 3 requires reminders to integrate tasks. iOS 13 reworked all the reminders and it looks like I can’t use them with Fantastical 3 on Mojave or with Fantastical 2 on High Sierra.

Is this true and is there a workaround? If not, I guess I continue using Things 3 and Apple Calendar.

Thanks.

As far as a software uses Apple’s Reminders as backend for tasks you’re out of luck: either all pre-catalina or post-catalina, no interaction between the two ages

Yes, but it may earn you another forum badge. :rofl:

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He’s not giving it to “us”. It’s sponsored material. That’s something different. Or are you also thanking your car dealership for giving you the nice brochure for the new car you want to buy from them?

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Weather seems to be pretty useless. BusyCal is offering that option too. Like that information is not available elsewhere (for free in the Notification Center e.g.).

It’s not messaging that is the issue - they made two deliberate choices, both of which are creating massive badfeeling amongst a previously very evangelical user base.

They have chosen to show all the premium features inline with the regular features, in a passive agressive “this is what you could have won” style. Most apps either don’t show the premium features until unlocked, or have them segragated somehow. This means (and it keep happening to me) that users keep accidently hitting a premium feature, and then get the “you need a subscription for this feature” dialog.

They put v3 out as an update to v2. There are many good reasons to do this (the recent episode of Upgrade on Relay.fm has a comment from James Thompson which explains why this is often the preffered option) from the developers point of view, and often it’s not an issue for the customer. However, because v3 so significantly changed the business model, it’s has created a lot of uncessary ill will

On the Upgrade episode Jason mentioned how that yes we all like nice things, but that sometimes nice things cost more than they’re worth to you, so you have to settle for something else. The example he used was that he’d like a Tesla, but can’t afford it, so doesn’t have one. And whilst he has a point, he’s ignoring what Fantastical did here. To stick with the car analogy, I had a Ford, took it in for it’s service, and the dealership gave me back a Tesla which was limited to behave like a Ford unless I pay the price for a Tesla. I don’t want the Tesla, I was happy with my Ford and want it back.

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I’ll layer that analogy a little bit. You also had support costs built into the original Ford purchase. But now, without warning, there’s a premium support line and a regular support line, and you have to wait a bit if you’re not willing to pay into the premium bit.

But more importantly: someone else walks in behind you and buys the Tesla outright and they seem happy with the monthly premium fee. A few months later, while you’re still at the service desk complaining about subscription software, that customer walks in—turns out they decided to stop paying the monthly fee so the car stopped working. (It still looks pretty in their driveway, though.)

The ire here is warranted, though. This switch represents three out of the four sins of subscription:

  • No warning on the change.
  • Massive price increase vs. buying the new app every couple of years.
  • Loss of access to features if you stop paying.
  • Loss of access to features you previously had.(Fantastical’s upgrade model meant that this doesn’t apply in this situation.)

The latter two are the most malicious. It is astounding that you could pay in $150 CDN over three years and, if you decide to stop, you now have a $0 app, not a $150 app.

It should be restated: this is a systemic issue, facilitated by Apple’s lacking app store policies.

Both Apple and subscription-sin developers are to blame in these circumstances, though, because we’ve seen it done right.

First, there’s an alternative! Agenda’s model is essentially subscription, but it eliminates sin 3 by giving users permanent access to features they’ve paid for.

Second, the first two sins can be easily alleviated. Give users lots of warning (the opposite of Flexibits’ blaring in-app promotion at launch), and charge fees per-feature or use a tiered system.

This thread of complaints is worth something. We’ve been frustrated by subscriptions previously, but people could usually argue that the subscription was for a service. Now we’ve seen a subscription mind mapping app and a subscription calendar app. The costs to use these apps just went up considerably, and there’s no longer such thing as a “lifelong user” unless you’re being extorted. Users who loved and supported these apps for years can no longer afford them. Sure, the subscription might be worth the value to some people, but to focus on that is to miss the other changes that hurt users.

I might subscribe to Fantastical! That doesn’t mean I can’t be abhorred at the proliferation of this business model.

And to that end, @macsparky, I have all the love for you and all the other tech influencers. I’m not mad that you’ve chosen to subscribe. But I am disappointed that you et al. put so little pressure on developers to find better ways of doing this.

(And yes, I read @ismh’s Relay.fm policy citation a while back. I believe it that no one is paid to say these things. It seems apparent that, instead, this lack of pressure comes in the form of an implicit bias for these developers who so regularly sponsor your shows. There’s a reason we haven’t seen an “Alternatives to Squarespace” episode! :wink:)

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Totally agree here. Service based apps going into subscription is fine with me just like Storage based subscriptions like Dropbox, iCloud etc. This subscription for Fantastical is welcome for some calendar heavy users like in Real estate, Sales, Attorneys etc who deal a lot with clients. But there are other individual and enterprise users like Developers who don’t interact with clients a lot, instead just love a great Calendar App and would pay the heavy upgrade fee just to have a shinny front end to the calendar for their personal use. I have access to Outlook via my work and that cannot be changed not tied to external 3rd party apps like Fantastical as its against their policy.

So as much as I just want to upgrade and support, Fantastical, you are not giving me an option here instead forcing me to just stay put with version V2. I would love the different views, UI features but really don’t care to create an account on Fantastical and don’t care scheduling features.

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Subscriptions are the current business model, I don’t see this changing anytime soon for something better or greater unless the users speak up.

I have a lot of great apps on my phone that I use daily, some I pay for the subscription price (Day One, Drafts, to name a few) Others not yet (Pocket, Feedly, Fantastical to name some more)

At the end of the day when all is said and done…here’s my criteria (in case someone wants it)

  1. Is the app functional and essential in my life, productivity and workflow?
  2. Do a test-run for a week without subscription and see if I really need the extra features.
  3. Is there a default/stock app that does the same and provides the same level of function?

That’s a brief summary, there are more questions that I ask, assign them each a point or 2. Add up the points. I try to create 10 questions for myself. Give yourself a grade.

A - instant subscribe
B - subscribe for trial period and use heavily
C or below - use standard features for a few weeks, reassess again after a week.

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