Thought experiment for reducing digital access and exposure

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This isn’t something I’m actually planning on doing, but it did get me curious how it might work.

The goal is to remove myself from any large corporation as much as possible, limit my dependence on any piece of software, and reduce/eliminate anything stored on third-party servers. In my thought experiment I’m not aiming for 100% compliance. I don’t think that’s actually possible without fully dropping out of a lot of modern life.

This is for personal use – not trying to run a business. The requirements are I need a computer, a phone, music, and photography.

The end result is there should be very little tracking as possible and nothing I create should be able to be held “hostage” or be dependent on accessibility to a server outside of my control.

Since a phone and some online activity is involved you can’t completely avoid tracking or large corporations (I don’t know how you could reasonable avoid all websites hosted by Amazon or Google).

Hardware/OS
I don’t think I have a choice other than Linux. MacOS, Windows and Chrome are all too deeply embedded with the companies and I’d stay away from all of them. I’d prefer to use MacOS just cause I’m comfortable with it.

As for the hardware – I’d think a laptop would be most practical and it would need to be pretty durable. And of course I’d need to wipe it and install linux on it. I don’t know if there are any small, reliable laptop makers out there. I do like Apple’s hardware but they’d be one of the large corporations to avoid.

The laptop would mostly be run offline, only going online with a VPN.

For online access I don’t think there’s any reasonable way to avoid a large corporation and some degree of tracking. I’m taking it as a given I will need to go online at times. If I remove online access entirely this becomes a VERY different thought experiment.

Software
I think this is pretty straightforward. There are text or command line alternatives to most everything I do. If I go with Linux I could use Obsidian for a lot of what I would need. There are command line budget managers and Actual has a Linux version.

I could replace Adobe Lightroom with darktable.

I’m thinking going all in on Proton would probably the best way of managing email/passwords/vpn, though I’d need to look more at how their offline access works. I’m not sure how to avoid being dependent on another organization for email – my options would be limited here.

As for finances and shopping, I don’t think there’s any way to avoid some online access. I’m sure it’s possible to remain completely offline regarding banking and shopping, but there may be too much of a loss of practicality. It’s too bad Amazon is so ubiquitous and effective at delivering.

For backups, it would have to be local backups and driven offsite. An always on backup software like Backblaze wouldn’t cut it for numerous reasons.

For playing music, I think I’d have to go back to CDs, burned or physical disk. Any music service would be too online and have too much tracking. If I were to keep up with my current rate of music listening this could get very expensive buying CDs.

Phone
I’d probably drop the smart phone and just get the dumbest phone possible. There’s no way I could avoid tracking or leaving a digitial footpath with a phone and cellular connection. I’m sure there’s tons of basic functionality that I’ll lose but I’m sure very little of that is actually a necessity.

I spend free time/vacation time in deserts or traveling in rural areas. Some sort of emergency satellite signal would be needed, whether it’s embedded in the phone or another piece of equipment.

Photography
A phone camera is out as is any online sharing or storage. I’d have to just use my mirrorless camera and go with local storage on my computer of all images. Personally I don’t use any social media or photo sharing services so I’m not out anything here. I would miss using Lightroom, but there are enough alternatives that are non-destructive on the images – this would likely be the easiest part of this whole process.

Overview
My habits would have to drastically change. I spend way too much time digitally than I probably should, but a lot of it is where my interests lie. This would probably be the hardest part of all - changing my very ingrained habits and adjusting how I keep up with my interests.

There is of course somthing funny in this whole process…for the majority of my life this is how I lived by default. It’s amazing to think of how quickly so much of our day-to-day behavior has been completely modified.

In my thought experiment this is not a digital detox situation, or moving to some form of digital minimalism. It’s simply reducing how exposed I am, both in terms of my personal information/tracking and in terms of how susceptible I am to a particular service being shut down.

As for limiting use of large corporations – I don’t have a clear definition of what determines “large”. And it would be impossible to avoid entirely. Nor do I think in terms of this large corporation is “good” and therefore is ok to be used. The goal is to avoid all large corporations as much as possible. Think of this part as akin to shopping at locally owned stores vs chain stores when possible.

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I guess the biggest thing you can do is avoid using the internet as much as possible. I guess you will need it to download the software you need, there is no place to buy a software in a box anymore. Don’t use a cell phone if you can avoid it, but if you must, turn it off until you want to make a phone call. I read somewhere a person who doesn’t have a cell phone and just borrows a friends phone when he wants to make a call. Maybe go all the way back and have a PO Box and just send your friends letters. No digital tracking there.

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And that is the big question – online access and phones, really (and I guess credit cards).

For 100% compliance what you suggest is really the only way. But how impractical does it become?

Another thought regarding cell phones … if you go without having a phone, or only turning it on when you want to make a call you are forcing other people into your lifestyle choices to a degree. For example, my Mom is 92, never been tech savvy at all, and often needs help/reminders or, in the worst case scenarios, emergencies. The phone is the only way she has to contact me. For personal reasons, keeping a phone turned off is a non-starter for me.

So there becomes a point, unless it’s a zero-sum game, where compliance becomes slippery and personal.

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I’ve gone through a similar thought experiment. So far I’ve been far too comfortable with my current setup, but it comes to mind from time to time. For me, I’d switch to using my Canon for a camera, Linux on a System76 PC, and for a phone, I’m partial to the Mudita Pure or Kompakt. I’ve gotten used to the health features of my Apple Watch, so if I was going to move away from that, I suppose I’d use a Garmin Fenix. Oh, and replace my HomePods with Sonos.

That’s hardware, for services, I agree, going back to CDs and MP3s is probably the best, although it depends on how good the radio is out where you live. I’d just use local backups to an external drive and leave out any cloud file sync or backups.

The things that stops me from doing this is:

  1. I’ve got decades of experience with macOS now, it’d be very hard to switch.
  2. Replacing all my devices would be expensive. It’d have to be a slow process.
  3. No other manufacturer has as much dedication to environmental sustainability as Apple does.

I think your idea of reducing your digital footprint is laudable, but I wonder about how realistic it is, or how much it would actually improve your (or my) life.

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The book Extreme Privacy by former FBI cyber crime investigator Michael Bazzell may be of interest.

https://inteltechniques.com/book7.html

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When I first got interested in Apple back in the early 2000’s, Apple was still the underdog, still the little guy trying to prove that technology should have taste. It was fun watching the company explode so fantastically with the iPhone, but I have serious concerns about remaining a fan of the company when they are one of the largest, richest, most powerful organizations in the world. Not to mention their recent embrace of right-wing authoritarians.

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Huh?

…

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  • Tim Cook donating a million dollars to Trump’s inauguration. Then showing up on stage with him and the rest of the billionaires.
  • Changing the name of the Gulf of Mexico in Apple Maps.
  • Who knows what’s next.
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@ibuys, did you fall for the idea that Apple, the corporation, cared, really cared about you and its other customers? And now you are disillusioned and disappointed to find that they actually are a business that rakes in a lot of money and behaves just like anyone else where a lot of money is at stake. :man_shrugging:

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^ This.

Expanding …

Companies are companies, they are not your friends. None are ethical stalwarts fighting for your rights. Most exist to make a profit. Sometimes, a company produces useful products and services and makes a profit providing them, Apple for instance. Those companies can be big or small. There are also many companies that exist to make a profit seemingly at any cost, consequences be dammed, X and Facebook for example. Those companies can be big or small. Size does not matter.

Companies always have their best interests as their top priority. Rarely with those interests completely align with yours. Partially, maybe, completely, rarely if at all. And they can change. Witness Google, everything Musk does, Open AI, and even Apple.

Once you understand this, you can make decisions based on your needs without emotional attachment. While I want Apple to succeed, that is out of my self-interest, because I like their products. Not because I think they are morally superior or ‘better’ than other computer companies. I’m disappointed and perhaps saddened that it is just marketing hype, but not surprised.

I don’t use X or Facebook because they provide no value to me.I don’t use Uber because the company has shown to be ethically challenged (yes, you can choose not to give your custom to companies because of your values!). I avoid Amazon when possible because they allow fraudulent products to be sold and reviews to be gamed (I’ve been asked to provide positive reviews for free products). I avoid the Mac App Store and would avoid the iOS App Store because of the BS approval rules.

The only person looking out for your best interests is … drumroll, please … you! Make your choices wisely knowing this. And don’t get emotionally attached to a company or a product.

To put it another way, the stripper isn’t really into you.

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"Taking its status as a legal “person” to the logical conclusion, the film puts the corporation on the psychiatrist’s couch to ask, *“What kind of person is it?”

The diagnosis? Psychopath."

https://thecorporation.com/film/

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But then we will miss you on this MPU form. Please visit this forum occasionally to say Hi :grinning:

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That made me laugh!
One of the things I love about this forum is I learn and hear about so many things that are tangentially related to power-using.

As just one example, I know a lot more about tracking livestock than I ever expected. And it’s been great to learn.

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And that’s a big part of the question to go through in looking at something like this.

  1. What would I be sacrificing that would be too much to cut out of my life?
  2. What would be flat out impossible to do? Let’s say I wanted to cut Google and Amazon out of my life completely so I blocked anything from their servers getting through to my computer – how much of the Internet would I lose just by blocking those two corporations? I expect a lot.
  3. What would negatively impact others in my life that I’m not aware of?
  4. And your final point…what do I gain by doing this? Certainly it would have no wide-ranging impact. So what do I get? Is it smug self-satisfaction? Or replacing some behavior with something harder but feels better to do?

Maybe a relevant example would be I used to make my own beer and bake my own bread. The benefit I got from it wasn’t just the end result, which was usually pretty good, but I enjoyed the whole process. Even the cleaning up afterwards ( I can get flour all over the house from one batch of bread).

Thanks for the links. I forgot about the Mudita.

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If I were to go whole hog I would go
Light Phone or a Pixel with GrapheneOS.
VanillaOS for my Laptop. (Would need chromium to access riverside for my podcasts.)
Remarkable for my Tablet (my main creative output in writing).
and a Raspberry Pi Media Box for my TV and a good old fashioned Antenna for OTA TV stations. With Apple TV finally coming to Android I don’t even have to give up my purchased iTunes content.
Back to Real Watches for me.
Proton VPN and Proton Drive for Cloud and VPN services.
The issue is is that my wife would kill me if I did that.

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If I only shopped with companies that perfectly aligned to my values I would walk naked to Chick-Fil-a. No one wants to see that.

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Of course, one could just go join an Amish community.

I have a hard time understanding what the point of this is. Is it an exercise in nostalgia?

Take this point:

Now imagine watches had just because widespread. You were now chained to the clock on your wrist (or in your pocket). Would you be saying, “Back to wall clocks for me?”

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With my values, I would never walk in to a Chick-fil-A.

Cheers.

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But with my values walking there Naked would undermine my values for modesty. So guess I’m living in a cave.

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I think there is real tangible anxiety with being constantly online and knowing that we functionally have the tech that Orwell could only dream about.

I too want to find a better line between offline and online life. I’ve just been dabbling in the Eink space in my manifestation of it. More gadgets with less infinite scrolling by being devoid of browsers and app stores.