Thought experiment for reducing digital access and exposure

Thanks, that’s a good read. I hadn’t come across it before.

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I really enjoyed reading your post and this discussion. I’ve recently had similar thoughts and made some decisions on my own tech use, namely that I’ll be eventually exiting the Apple ecosystem. The full process will take several years because I have an M1 Mac Mini and an M2 iPad Pro, both of which I expect to continue using for at least 6-7 more years. I rely on the Affinity apps for about half my income so I’ll keep on with those apps and hardware for those projects.

Yesterday I pulled my 2012 Mac Mini out of storage and installed Linux Mint and have already I’ve transitioned my website workflow to that machine. That’s half of my work and computing time. It’s only been 36 hours with Linux and this new set-up. I have to say, I’m having a blast thus far. I’m sure I’ll bump into a few obstacles but this new set-up is working remarkably well and I suspect will only get better as I become more familar with the new OS.

A part of the process is also transitioning from Apple apps, iCloud and all other Apple services. I’ve already begun that process. I’ll downgrade my iCloud account to the minimum by June and will probably keep that minimal plan for the forseeable future as I’ll still be using my iPad and iPhone.

I quit all social media except Mastodon and Bluesky but I don’t really use the latter and will likely delete that as well. I’d already minimized my use of Google services though, like Apple, there are a couple I’ll be stuck with for awhile.

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Like @Denny , I too have been enjoying this discussion. For many years I’ve been fascinated by the myriad ways that different people arrange their unique computing environments having used quite a few different platforms since my first computer, an Atari 800, back in the early 80’s.

One of the things that makes it easy for me to switch to different *nix OS variants is by (mostly) sticking to the “files over apps” philosophy. If you own your data and it’s in easily portable & widely utilized formats it’s fairly simple to switch. Not everyone has this luxury as many folks do things on computers which involves highly specialized software.

All that said, I’ve been working on moving more of my easily portable data out of various cloud based systems (ie. someone else’s computer) and back onto my own systems. For example, just this week I moved my contacts & calendars onto a FreeBSD VM running on my desktop Mac using radicale. And at the beginning of this month I picked up a refurbished Thinkpad to start checking out Pop_OS.

As retirement is not so far away for me the expense of buying a Mac every 6 or 7 years that can run OS versions which receive security patches is a non-starter. Not to mention the massive amount of unnecessary e-waste generated by that business model. A decent spec PC running a supported version of *BSD or Gnu/Linux can easily last 10-15 years (for my needs), hardware failures notwithstanding.

Although I don’t see myself completely exiting the Apple ecosystem, I’m also not reliant on it and I realize that’s a fairly privileged position to be in. Apple has done some really great things with privacy (ADP!) and I hope that they are able to continue to do so in spite of personal privacy being under attack in multiple jurisdictions around the world as has been the case for a very long time.

In the end I feel that privacy rights and data rights are basic human rights, and I’m willing to do what I feel is necessary to protect the privacy of my loved ones, my friends, and myself. Given the increasing audacity of the attacks on privacy by various governments and private entities all over the world, I feel that keeping my data on systems under my control may be the best option going forward.

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I’ve been following the development of Waydroid because native Android app support could fill a lot of gaps for people who want to go Linux but need mainstream apps.

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I think age has a lot to do with the success of such a venture. Those of us who are old enough to have been around before the internet and mobile phones would find this somewhat easier. My children, who grew up with a smartphone, not so.

My issues in the debate are pragmatic. Increasing numbers of supermarkets don’t accept cash, nor do many car parking areas. Travel also would be an issue in terms of navigation software, although I still know how to read a map! Train tickets would be harder to obtain, and travelling on public transport would be more difficult. It would also mean avoiding electric cars or buying at least a car that is pre-2015.

Banking would be an issue as, in the UK, many branches have closed, expecting you to be online or use their smartphone app. It would also be an issue with medical treatment as accessing your data would require being online, and making appointments usually come via online systems. In fact, 2FA would, and passkeys would require more feature-rich tech. Older people who are in the UK and not online have a very tough time getting medical and government help as it’s assumed you’re online.

I’ve also needed to verify my ID a few times, which needed me to be online, and all of my interaction with my local council is via an online portal, as is my tax and pension data. I have family abroad, and we call via WhatsApp video. Going back to phone calls would be costly.

As time marches on, I realise that reversing things that are tech-dependent is no longer possible in many areas and will increasingly spread to most areas in life.

Having said all of that, I’m beginning again to store my letters and statements in lever arch files. I’ve stopped scanning them into DEVONthink. I really have been tempted by the Punkt Mp02 that runs on Signal.

I’m also now debating my use of cloud services with the UK government weakening privacy and security by their Orwellian policies.

I suppose the whole issue here revolves around what has to be online and requires an online account and working around that.

By the way, I had Apple AI proofread this text :grin:

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Wouldn’t that allow the VPN provider to track (and a learn a lot about) you?

If I were to try this, the first thing I would need is a time machine, to go back to the 70s and not apply for my first credit card.

The data we give up using credit cards is greater, IMO, than the information we might give up surfing the web. Merchants know everything about us. Amazon should be able to create an almost perfect profile of me.

And any information they are missing should be available in the dozens of financial and healthcare data hacks that have occurred in the last few years. :man_shrugging:

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Yes it would. There might be a bit of having to choose your poison if you don’t want to go completely offline or find some other way of hiding your traffic.

It’s my understanding that VPNs have different practices. Some do end up being just data vacuums for everything you do. Other’s try to anonymize data better.

VPNs also have a problem is certain websites seem to block you from using them if they can recognize you’re coming through a VPN.

I think about this when I’m buying things at the grocery store. There’s so much information out there just from basic purchases.

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Read your post this morning and then came across this Guardian story a couple of hours later. The UK seems to have gone much further with these things than in my small corner of Canada.

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I worked for a national grocery store chain from my final year in high school until I finished college. So years later when my brother read that a customer had sued this company after falling in a store he called me.

They were one of the first companies to create a loyalty card and had used the amount of beer this customer had been buying as a defense in court.

Companies look out for their interests and shareholder value (which may include us depending on our investment portfolios) and you and I look out for our interest. Nothing new under the sun. “What’s good for the goose …” :slightly_smiling_face:

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Time to start buying my hooch with cash and Groucho Marx glasses.

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As a committed Mac/iPhone/iPad/Apple Watch user it would be difficult and unwanted by me to remove the one large corporation called Apple.

However, for the most part I favour using open source software over commercial products.A paid-for (non-subscription) program has to be either the only one available or have some USP that open source does not have. For example, I use Apple Numbers because it ships with macOS, etc. Likewise Pages although my preference is for Scrivener but occasionally I need LibreOffice. For proper documents I fall back on LaTeX.

I do not use Microsoft products unless I absolutely have to. For example, i use Teams under sufferenace because communication with staff members of my political party use it. For an online evening course it is Zoom but the school uses Microsoft Outlook for email — I use the web version.

As to servers I am building a small server farm using RaspberryPi 5s. Have one for mariaDB — never MySQL as Oracle as a unwanted as MIcrosoft. Soon there will be one as my email server and when that comes on stream I will more than likely close my Gmail account. There are a bunch of others I might install but they won’t have a pin prick in my intranet’s firewall.

I understand your avoidance of Microsoft,

I am actually growing to detest Microsoft more and more; bloated clunky software that crashes regularly, data siphoning marketed as security, constant damned updates, constant popups demanding feedback and the list goes on.

Sadly Windows and Microsoft Oftice/365 whatever it is called this week, dominants the business world, education. Ughhhh.

Not sure what the alternative is though except Pages/Numbers etc but then you have to play the covert the file type game. I haven’t tried Libreoffice but may try it.

I don’t have your energy to start building servers etc but if I can ween myself of Google and Microsoft, as I have done with all social media, it will be a good start. More time, less junk software and perhaps a bit more privacy. I also find that using ProtonVPN and mail and drive has give me more privacy and zero spam but it’s not cheap.