UPDATE in Fairness to the Developers of Ulysses and others / I've Tried, I Really Have, But I Surrender 😔

[Bmosbacker]

Update, Monday May 19, 2025

In fairness to the developers and users of Ulysses, I want to provide an update.

Over the weekend, I disabled iCloud syncing on all of my devices for all applications and deleted Ulysses from each device. I then re-enabled iCloud syncing and, as is my practice, ensured all of my iCloud documents were downloaded to my Mac. I do this to maintain complete local backups on two external drives. I left the Mac on overnight to allow all documents to finish downloading.

This morning, I decided to reinstall Ulysses on my devices to see what would happen. After reinstalling, all of my Ulysses projects and sheets downloaded and synced correctly across every device. Even my large book project appeared in proper order. I also created and deleted several test sheets. Everything synced correctly.

I’m pleased that everything is now working as it should. That said, Ulysses remains the only app in my workflow that has required this level of intervention to function reliably. All of my other apps synced properly without resetting iCloud.

I hope this update is helpful to those who may have been concerned by my earlier post. Based on my experience—and that of others—a degree of caution with Ulysses syncing still seems warranted.

Will I continue to use Ulysses? I don’t know. I’ll need to give it serious thought. At the moment, I doubt it. The only reason I’d even consider it is that it’s a wonderful app to write in.

But, even with the positive syncing, NOT everything is syncing correctly. For example, the project folders are not syncing:

iPhone

iPad

Mac

In any case, I want to be fair and transparent—even if it means ending up with egg on my face. I also want to represent the Ulysses developers accurately. These posts often appear in Google searches, so it’s important that I provide a complete account of my experience—good and bad.

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Before I proceed, I need to eat a little humble pie and offer an apology.

I have been all over the place multiple times regarding my writing app(s) of choice. Scrivener, Ulysses, iA Writer, Craft, Pages, Word, and few others I’m probably forgetting. I posted here too many times about my travails and tinkering with writing tools.

For those tired of my posts about this, I offer my sincere apologies. I don’t mean to be a nuisance or tiresome—honestly, I don’t blame you. I’m wearing myself out just writing them!

I have tried for several years to use Ulysses as my primary writing app. I love nearly everything about it. But despite my best efforts–and even with recent updates–syncing remains unreliable.

I won’t burden everyone with the full list of sync issues I’ve encountered over the years. I’ll simply share the most recent example from this morning.

This morning, I made two straightforward changes in Ulysses on my iPad:

1. I renamed my book project from “Book (Nov 2024)” to “Book.”
2. I deleted two sheets.

After nearly two hours, the changes I made on the iPad still hadn’t synced to either the Mac or the iPhone.

Steps I took to resolve the issue:

• I waited for over two hours.
• I closed and reopened Ulysses on all devices, several times.
• I shut down and restarted each device.

Still, no sync.

My final step was to turn Wifi and cellular off of my iPhone and Wifi off on my Mac. I then deleted Ulysses on the iPad and reinstalled it.

The result? My book project downloaded with all of the sheets (chapters) in the incorrect order—not matching the order of the chapters on the Mac and phone. For the record, I have Ulysses sort set to manual on all of my devices.

For context:

• I’m running an M4 iPad Pro, an M1 MacBook Pro, and an iPhone 13 Pro.
• Ulysses is updated on all devices.
• All OS versions are current.
• All devices are on the same network.
• All other apps sync flawlessly

I want to use Ulysses. I like it–a lot. I also recognize that many users swear by it, rely on it for all their writing, and have never experienced a single sync issue. It’s an elegant, thoughtfully designed writing environment.

But I can no longer justify the time lost to ongoing sync failures. Nor can I continue working under the constant strain of wondering whether my changes will sync—worse still, whether I’ll lose work entirely (which has happened at least twice), or whether files will become a mangled mess.

Thankfully, I have a robust backup system and maintain a mirrored version of my book project in Scrivener, so nothing was lost. Without those safeguards, I would have lost a significant amount of work.

To be clear: this is not an iCloud issue. As stated above, all other apps I use that rely on iCloud sync flawlessly.

I share this not to rant, but to lament. And, as others in this forum, elsewhere, and in [this article] (Fuck You Ulysses! - by Erik Engheim - Erik Explores) (apologies for the vulgarity in the title) have shared, I’m not alone in this experience.

I could contact Ulysses support again; they are very responsive–but I don’t have time to keep troubleshooting. I have writing to do.

Perhaps one day Ulysses sync will be rock solid, and I’ll happily consider returning to it. Until then, it is back to Scrivener, iA Writer, and Pages.

This time, I mean it!

With that, I’ve changed what loads at startup: Dropbox (for syncing Scrivener), along with iA Writer and Pages for writing outside of Scrivener. Scrivener is more complex than I prefer—especially when it comes to compiling—but I’ve never had a single sync issue with it.

[svsmailus]

So sorry to hear that my friend. I have a simple rule in using apps. If I ever lose data, the app gets deleted.

[sangadi]

@Bmosbacker I think only LaTeX Editors suits your work flow.

[Bmosbacker]

I’ve read some things about it, but I suspect it is way over my tech head. My writing is comprised of text, references, tables, images, lists and multiple heading levels. From what I’ve read, correct me if I’m wrong, LaTeX is more for scientific orientated writing and formulas.

[rms]

@Bmosbacker

From what I’ve read, correct me if I’m wrong, LaTeX is more for scientific orientated writing and formulas

Not really “more for” but it shines at that, of course.

I for years have used Scrivener and the LaTeX template they provide. Compiled that to PDF for most is it all my client deliverables. The instructions in the Scrivener LaTeX template are succinct, clear, and correct.

Some people use other methods to write in Scrivener and compile out to further use Pandoc but have never found need so do not be misled if others suggest that the only way.

[Bmosbacker]

May I ask the benefit of using LaTeX template in Scrivener? I’m using the manuscript template for the book, but just the default template for other writings, e.g., blog articles. I have to give up on the “perfect” writing app. Scrivener is almost there but 1) compile is complex (at least for me—but I should really read the manual ) and 2) a better mobile app is needed for the iPad.

[rms]

The output is as i want and i have the benefit of doing all writing in Scrivener. I get title page, TOC, chapters and sections, index, etc. The Manuscript template good too.

The Scrivener LaTeX template will enable making “beautiful” documents based on the Memoir LaTeX class. You may not need this. If you don’t need it, don’t do it.

As you know, writing in Scrivener is completely separate from compiling output, so your output formats and features are many even with are source.

The iOS Scrivener is not intended to be full Scrivener. Do not wish or pine for something it is not nor ever will be. And do not use this expectation about the iOS app as reason to reject using Scrivener. Use the iOS app for writing on the go. It actually is quite good as it is. Write and do any compiling with the mac app.

To get best advice on compiling view the tutorial videos, scan the manual to at least know what is there, lots of pretty good books out there, and discuss and ask on the Scrivener forum … not here. The best teachers there.

[Bmosbacker]

Thanks @rms and @iPersuade (for prior assistance), you both are encouraging when it comes to using Scrivener. I just have to get over my paralysis of too many choices and just stick with Scrivener for most writing and use Pages when I need a formal document. Thanks for the kindness. I don’t deserve it, but I appreciate it. In my circles, it is called grace.

[rms]

@Bmosbacker

choices and just stick with Scrivener for most writing

Yes. Stick to something. Scrivener is ok for that. Will allow years of usefulness and continued learning.

[SpivR]

Weird - ATP guys were just talking about LaTeX out of the blue.

Last time I saw/used it was 40+ years ago on a typesetting job that I was asked to proofread.

(It was a user manual for an early generation PC, the Victor 9000, not an academic or technical paper.)

[Tellerman]

After the last bug fix, sync has been solid for me. It’s actually flawless. It’s weird that it’s not so for you. Still, I don’t think many people have lost data in Ulysses as there is automatic backup and the files are usually just stuck inside some DB somewhere. You, and the swearing guy, might possibly be the only one having sync issues now…

[sgtaylor5]

Hearing this, it looks like it might be a problem with his unique account with Ulysses. Perhaps if @BMosbacher made a new account with Ulysses, that might provide an avenue for troubleshooting? Of course, if Ulysses needs his iCloud account that would make it really tough.

[Bmosbacker]

You, and the swearing guy, might possibly be the only one having sync issues now…

Well, that makes me feel better.

[JensV]

Not to lure you back to Ulysses , but I had similar issues with syncing some years back - e.g. it would constantly forget all the content on my iOS devices and would redownload everything again and again every couple of days; so I started to use Ulysses with external folders in iCloud.

That way I had all the files directly accessible in the Finder and in my experience sync worked more flawlessly and so many complete redownloads

Granted, you loose a couple of the features of Ulysses that way.

[zkarj]

There’s an underlying point in @JensV’s reply. It is my understanding that the problem you have with Ulysses is in fact a problem with iCloud.

One of Apple’s many wilful blind spots is that iCloud sync is unreliable. If they would just admit to that and provide some basic tools (chiefly a “resync now” button), a lot of apps would be so much more reliable.

[Bmosbacker]

There’s no doubt that iCloud may be part of the problem. However, it’s hard to understand why so many other apps—using the same iCloud service—seem to sync flawlessly, while Ulysses continues to struggle, at least for me and others that have reported similar issues. I want to be clear: I like Ulysses. That’s part of what makes this so frustrating. If it would just work, I’d be a happy camper. But between repeated sync failures and lost work, it’s increasingly difficult to understand why this issue remains unresolved.

[Bmosbacker]

Certainly—and that is a great feature in Ulysses. However, given that I lose access to several important features when working with external files, it seems I’m better off using an editor like iA Writer, or even Scrivener, rather than paying a subscription to Ulysses just to access external folders. Am I missing something?

[zkarj]

If I recall correctly, Ulysses uses “iCloud Drive” syncing. There is a newer system called CloudKit which I hear is way more reliable. I think I made the suggestion to Ulysses that they switch but it would not be straightforward for them. Plus… the problem is Apple’s and I believe Ulysses have made their customers’ issues known to Apple.

[Bmosbacker]

I may be misremembering, but I thought I had read somewhere that Ulysses had switched to CloudKit. Perhaps I imagined that. Regardless, given the current state of things, I find it impossible to entrust my work to an app that periodically fails to sync—and then, as it did this morning, completely jumbles the order of sheets in a major non-fiction book project. As I mentioned above, I’m thankful for my robust backup system and the fact that I mirrored everything in Scrivener, just in case. Sometimes, it pays to be paranoid.

[DrJJWMac]

@Bmosbacker

May I ask the benefit of using LaTeX template in Scrivener?

The only reason to use LaTeX is when you need to generate a document that must be of the highest quality when the content is to fit as a hard-copy (or hard-ebook copy) precisely onto an exactly sized “print” page.

Some may argue that LaTeX is the only way to go for documents with mathematical expressions. I’d suggest instead that certain applications are absolutely to be avoided when you set a premium on formatting for beautiful, complex mathematic expressions. Scrivener is not one of the apps to avoid for this case (Word is worse).

@Bmosbacker

As I mentioned above, I’m thankful for my robust backup system and the fact that I mirrored everything in Scrivener, just in case.

Do you also routinely backup the document (Ulysses) source folder as a (date stamped) ZIP archive to an external drive and to a different cloud location?

Otherwise, as for the sync issues … I do not trust iCloud as a true cloud sync service. My experiences in Bookends at one point mirrored yours … Something I changed in Bookends on my iPad just did not want to sync to my macOS system. I have since switched in Bookends to using its WiFi sync method instead of its iCloud sync method.

Just for reference, I also discovered that I could sometimes force iCloud to sync the file contents for an app by going to the specific iCloud folder for the app either on my iPad or on my mac, adding a new folder, and waiting.

@Bmosbacker

I just have to get over my paralysis of too many choices and just stick with

I’d view this as a choice in where you spend your overhead. Either you stay with Ulysses for the joy of the writing environment but must spend overhead time to resolve how you must spend the time assuring that they sync happens when you need it. Or you stay with Scrivener for the joy of robust syncing (and whatever else) but must spend the time to resolve how you must spend your time to work around the less than joyful environment for writing (i.e. the lower quality iPadOS app).

–
JJW