UPDATE in Fairness to the Developers of Ulysses and others / I've Tried, I Really Have, But I Surrender 😔

[svsmailus]

@Bmosbacker

export the full manuscript to Word for final editing

If it needs to be in Word in the end why not :gulp, write it in Word?

[Tellerman]

…or have a little “faith” in the will of the developers and their ever-ongoing work for bettering their product. Faith can go a long way

[Bmosbacker]

@webwalrus

On the off chance you need an additional emotional support puppy, our dog is happy to offer her services as well.

With the support of kind and helpful folks like you and others on this forum, along with my loyal dog, I’m good!

[Bmosbacker]

I understand that my application challenges (gyrations?) might lead to certain perceptions.

While I’m not seeking complete feature parity between the Mac and the iPad—that’s proven unrealistic—I do expect to seamlessly work on my book and other projects across both devices based on my context. The MacBook Pro is ideal for office settings, while the iPad is great when traveling or in a coffee shop.

My primary expectation is reliable syncing between devices. I recognize perfection isn’t feasible, but as a paying subscriber, it’s reasonable to expect dependable syncing without the risk of data loss. Unfortunately, with Ulysses, this has not been the case, and I’m not alone in facing syncing issues and lost work.

writing: Ulysses on macOS
editing (ONLY!): PDF Expert on iPadOS
content management: Finder on macOS, TimeMachine to external SSD
research: ??? on iPadOS or macOS
outlining: ??? on macOS

I’ll grant that I may be making this more complicated than necessary—perhaps even expecting too much. After all, I’ve written more papers and articles than I can count, several theses, contributed to and published books, and completed a doctoral dissertation—all in Word.

That said, it’s 2025, I don’t think it is too much to expect writing applications, especially those on a subscription model, to minimize friction, sync reliably, and offer a flexible structure for managing large projects. I:

• Want to write and organize long-form documents with multiple heading levels and citations on both the Mac and iPad, with the ability to bulk export my work in multiple formats for archiving
• Use DEVONthink to manage research documents
• Rely on Preview or PDF Expert for PDF editing on the iPad

Scrivener and Ulysses come the closest (though I’ve not checked out Mellel as suggested above, which I plan to do).

At this point, my best guess is that I’ll:

• Complete the book in Scrivener
• Write articles in iA Writer
• Write formal documents and reports in Pages (or write articles and formal documents in Pages).

I appreciate the input. As I said, I’ll grant that I’m probably making this more difficult than warranted.

[rms]

@Bmosbacker

• Complete the book in Scrivener
• Write articles in iA Writer
• Write formal documents and reports in Pages (or write articles and formal documents in Pages)

IMHO, good plan. Now … stick to it for at least a year.

If guidance required for Scrivener, view the Tutorial, scan the Manual, perhaps get a book, and use the Scrivener forum which has many world-class users (including authors of those books) who are very helpful, along with L&L staff.

Finally, with Scrivener it would be best to let go of the idea that the macOS and iOS versions must be feature equivalent. Maybe the “next” app talked about from L&L will have both versions equivalent, but … we have to see. Focus on the book.

[Daveb08]

My ‘simple’ suggestion is find any writing app (Mac/iPad) that suits your needs and syncs using Apple’s CloudKit (the successor to iCloud). If it’s a sync method good enough for DevonThink, then it’s good enough for me. YMMV.

[Bmosbacker]

Fair question.

The main reason is that Word is far from ideal for organizing and writing a 33-chapter non-fiction book. Applications like Scrivener, Ulysses, and others were developed specifically to address this challenge. Word works well for standard business-length documents, but it’s less suited—though still serviceable—for large, complex projects, at least by today’s standards. Then again, perhaps I’ve had too much of the tech Kool-Aid. After all, many books, dissertations, and more have been—and continue to be—written in Word.

[Bmosbacker]

@Tellerman

Faith can go a long way

True—if that faith is placed in the right object or person. Faith, in and of itself, is useless. It is the object of that faith that matters. In my case, I’ve sadly lost faith in Ulysses. I say “sadly” because, apart from the syncing issues, I think it’s a fantastic app—one of the best on the market.

[Bmosbacker]

You’re absolutely right. But must I really read the manual? Seriously though, my only major hang-up with Scrivener is its convoluted compile feature. I suppose I’ll just have to set aside a several hours to finally master it. Flying by the seat of my pants isn’t working

[Tellerman]

Im taking more of a Kierkegaardian kind of faith on the issue…a leap of faith.

[rms]

@Bmosbacker

But must I really read the manual?

No. I never said that far as I know. I certainly don’t think that. But you seem to think (I don’t do mind-reading very well) it’s a “badge of honor” to not read manuals for professional computer applications.

Previously, on a number of occasions, I have advised and will say again:

• Go thru the Scrivener Tutorial Video (on Menu). Look and play with the Interactive Tutorial (on Menu). If you break it, you can start again fresh very easily.
• Scan and/or speed read the manual to get familiar with what is there so that when needed you can say “Hey, I think I remember reading about that”. Read the parts that strike your fancy. If nothing, then don’t read anything. But scan it.
• Get one of the good books on Scrivener and read it. Listed on L&L’s web site. Some of the authors of these books active on the Scrivener forum.
• Use the Scrivener forum if above not enough.

I don’t think I ever advised you to read the Scrivener Manual, if read means sitting down for days to read it.

What I have said, and will say again:

• don’t expect to “master” the Scrivener compile. Start simple and keep simple. KISS. Don’t let learning compiling get in the way of writing.
• Don’t expect the iOS version to be same as macVersion, compiling in macOS and iOS is different. Don’t expect them to be the same. They aren’t and won’t be.
• start with a standard template and make no adjustments other than section layouts to do occasional compiles so you can read what you write–not for final publish format, but for content and organisation.
• fiddling with formatting via compiling while writing should be avoided. Don’t. I consider that procrastination. It is not a cure for writer’s block.
• you are writing now not producing a formatted book.
• If you are intending to eventually create the final formatted book for publishing, then you may need to get more familiar with compiling. Or output final draft to RTF and import into Microsoft Word if that can do what you want. Or what pro’s do is either use a professional tool or a professional service to make the camera-ready copy or e-book.

[Tellerman]

Scrivener has a dedicated name-generator…stuff like that freak me out…I dont know why. I am all for limited option, I guess.

[webwalrus]

@Bmosbacker

Seriously though, my only major hang-up with Scrivener is its convoluted compile feature.

When I tried Scrivener, I found the compile feature to be confusing - and I’m a programmer.

Not to be pessimistic, but you likely won’t master anything in a few hours. Pedagogically speaking, a key component of mastery is ongoing reinforcement/practice at intervals short enough that you don’t forget in the meantime, but long enough that you actually do have to engage your memory. I’m guessing you won’t compile often enough to develop that.

I’m not speaking for any feature of Scrivener specifically, but my general principle for stuff like this I that I try to come up with a “preset.” If the software supports it, set something up so that the software does what I want automatically, and be done with it. If the software doesn’t support it, either set up a macro with something like Keyboard Maestro OR get the settings the way I want and make screenshots/videos/whatever that tell me how to get what I want done.

[Jeagar52]

I’m sorry you’ve had such problems with Ulysses.

I’ve used it for several years now and have never had an issue with it. It does everything I want a text editor to do, plus publish posts directly to my WordPress website.

That said, if I’d experienced the difficulties you have, I’d drop it and find something else I liked.

[Bmosbacker]

@Jeagar52

I’ve used it for several years now and have never had an issue with it.

I must not be living right!

[svsmailus]

@Bmosbacker

my only major hang-up with Scrivener is its convoluted compile feature.

I found this helpful:

Setting up Scrivener to compile to Word

[Evan]

@zkarj

One of Apple’s many wilful blind spots is that iCloud sync is unreliable.

I’m trying to tell myself this a feature, not a bug, as it means I get to see the same reminder on multiple devices, even after dismissing it on each one. (For whatever reason, the state of my reminders from the Reminders app is often not in sync)

[svsmailus]

@zkarj

One of Apple’s many wilful blind spots is that iCloud sync is unreliable.

Does this mean that anything relying on iCloud is like to cause trouble at some point?

[vsp]

As of this writing I haven’t lost anything in iCloud. But I don’t have near the size of data out there that others have.

It can be slow to sync sometimes but I’ve never noticed anything wrong.

Notes and Reminders are pretty small. I sync Noteplan, Obsidian, Mindnode, and some general documents.
And DevonThink through CloudKit.

There are a few other small things I’m sure but that’s the major stuff.

I wonder if the amount of data makes a difference in the possibility of a problem. I’m going to guess it’s around 4 GB total. Not including Photos.

[Clarke_Ching]

@Bmosbacker

I’m pleased that everything is now working as it should. That said, Ulysses remains the only app in my workflow that has required this level of intervention to function reliably. All of my other apps synced properly without resetting iCloud.

I too had to do (something like) that the last time I used Ulysses following a period of not using it.

I also found that adding a new document forced a sync.

Bit of a pain!