How does one go about effectively archiving email in DT? Can you point me/others to any good workflows or other guides on doing so?
First of all, you do need the Pro or Server version of DEVONThink in order to archive email. If you’ve surmounted that hurdle then pages 56–58 of the most excellent user guide (also available through the in-app Help) has a detailed explanation of how to set up archiving.
Stephen
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There are tools for archiving built in in the Pro version.
However, I did it differently. I select the emails I want to import and drag them into the proper group in my DT archive database. I have them separated into years in DT. I don’t archive all messages so bringing in a whole mailbox doesn’t work. While it shouldn’t make a difference in DT I use POP mail not iMAP. If for some reason I happen to select messages that are already there I have it set to tell me and not to import them.
I typically get about 100-150 messages per day. I typically archive between 6000-7000 of my messages each year. My email archives in DT go back to 2008. My older email archives are huge text files and go back to 1995 when we first got our own domain and email. I have a few even older files from when I was using work emails but not many. The oldest of those is 1979, which contains my archived Compuserve emails.
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Heres a fun game! (and my answer to why not devonthink)
Long time users, go to https://discourse.devontechnologies.com, and click in the upper right, to see your Profile > Summary. There you will see the number of days you have visited the forums, the number of hours you’ve spent reading them, etc.
Me: 100 days visited, with an account that is ~9 months old. So I seek help about every 3 days… But! I browse from different devices and spend plenty of time logged out, so I wouldnt be surprised if the true time spent was 3x that, or more. I can safely say that in 2021, I’m spending significant time most days wrestling with DT.
360+ topics viewed. I’ve submitted 35 posts, but I’m someone who typically fights with software for a couple hours before asking for help. I’d estimate that my posts represent at least 2 hours of struggle, sometimes 6 or more, easily. There have been plenty of occasions where I felt like I lost the whole day to DT.
How about you Power users? How much of your life have you spent learning the ins and outs of DT?
When Sparks released the field guide, I wanted to cheer for him, knowing it must have been a monster to get through. But in the age of PKMs it seems like an off-brand endorsement from the host of a podcast called “Focused”.
To me, DT is more of a “Test your focus” app.
Basic use, when I first started using DEVONThink…a few hours, if that, turning it into a (very) sophisticated version of Finder—importing the files I already had stored in Finder folders. It was all very easy, and quite rewarding.
Since then? Hours…as I’ve slowly realised just what I can do with the software and how I can use it. I never needed to learn AppleScript but the things DEVONThink enabled me to do encouraged me to learn it and the results have been a joy. I learn so much from the DEVONThink forum and have used the software in ways I never envisaged when I first started using it. I have no regrets whatsoever.
Stephen
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Stephen would you mind elaborating how you have extended DEVONthink beyond your initial basic usage ?
Of course—the only reason I didn’t do so is because I didn’t want to bore people by repeating things I’ve harped on about before on this forum. 
Here’s a post summarising how and why I use DEVONThink to import Day One journal entries.
Aside from that I have an AppleScript database for storing snippets of useful code, another database for matters relating to management of the apartment where I live and a personal database for storage of receipts, medical information, bank statements and sundry other personal information. I also keep a “manuals and guides” database where I store pdf manuals and guides to software and odds and ends of hardware (have you ever tried to remember how to program a plant watering timer from one summer to the next? 
).
The joy, of course and in essence, is being able to find everything quickly and easily.
Edit: I should have made it clear I started simply with my personal database.
Stephen
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I use raindrop.io alongside Devonthink.
A key workflow for me is that each of my Raindrop folders has its own RSS feed. So, I have a Devonthink smart rule which monitors each raindrop RSS feed. Whenever I add a new URL to Raindrop, Devonthink automatically clips the page as a PDF and then saves it into the relevant local folder. And of course, indexes the contents.
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So wait, do you not deal with e-mail in any e-mail app?
Also, how often do you export to DT3?
FYI and perspective, @svsmailus says he is “archiving” mail into DEVONthink, which retains the mail from where it resides, e.g. Apple Mail. After archiving, one can work with individual mails in both apps should one want to. All explained in the DEVONthink Handbook (freely available), should you wish more details.
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Nope apart from replies that only take 2 min. I have an “Email-2021” database that sync’s to my mobile devices. All email is archived daily after it’s been archived in the mailbox. Emails needing action are flagged before archiving. All work is done from Devonthink.
I should say that I delete all email from all mailboxes permanently. I leave no email in any mailboxes.
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Are you moving all the attachments and pdfs into obsidian too? Obsidian has no tagging attachments, so you have to locate individual notes to drag them to, right?
I like the MOC idea in principle, but it seems like at least double the cost (compared to tags) to maintain.
In DT or Finder or anything that supports documents tagging I can just import the doc, like “contract.pdf”, and tag as #client-name for example.
When I want to find those docs, I search the tag.
Do you have a workflow in obsidian that’s quicker than this?
- Open obsidian (can’t just drag to the icon for example)
- Find the related note using quick switcher (see every note you have instead of a relatively short list of tags)
- position window to drag and drop attachment
- Style/ move the link around in the note
once it’s added to the note, that connection is fragile.
- delete the note? The pdf is orphaned.
- rename the attachment, that will break the markdown link.
- Can’t use spotlight to find it, because it’s called “contract.pdf”, doesn’t have the tagged metadata.
- obsidian can’t search in the pdf itself
To find the pdf in the note, I’m hunting for the way I initially styled the link. Did I put it in a header, a bulleted list, at the top or bottom? Under ## Ref or inline in a sentence?
Tags work so well for doc management, but obsidian only supports them 1. inline 2. in markdown notes.
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I am generally not moving PDFs into Obsidian at all. But then I didn’t’ have many in my DEVONThink database either.
Most of the PDFs I have are of scientific papers. Those are now neatly corraled into Zotero with nice links into Obsidian via Citations so I’ve gotten more use out of them now than I did before.
For me it’s the opposite. Trying to maintain and curate tags is a huge issue. Adding a quick link into a MOC or TOC type note is fast and simple
There is the issue and difference in my mind. I NEVER use search. I have a place for the files and I know where to find them. If I am resorting to searching content of a PDF to locate it I’ve failed. Having a well defined way of creating new folders for additional material and creating descriptive file names means it’s easy to locate the item.
Take your example of a file contract.pdf. The failure starts right there. That file would be named thusly in my system, 2022-02-11_Acme_Corp_coyote_contract.pdf It would be filed in my File_Cabinet folder in the Active_Projects folder in the Acme_Corp folder. Now if I handled a lot more customers than just Coyote I might have a separate folder for each customer but as we all know Coyote buys so much it takes 1 person just to handle that account. 
The note about where I am with respect to the contract is in Obsidian in a .md file. I don’t need to link it but I might hav a plain text note stating that support material is located in my Acme_Corp folder in Active_Projects
All the notes about the various things we’ve sold Coyote are there, plus the links to the complaints when the product didn’t work to help him catch Roadrunner. Some may be linked to pictures or videos as required.
Now say I get hit by the falling anvil and someone else has to pick up the Acme Corp Coyote account. They run on a Linux machine. All my structure and filenames can be copied over with no issues and they are up and running. My Obsidian vault can be opened up and used as is on that machine without any problems.
Tags do not persist. Different revs of the same operating system can deal with tags differently resulting in lost files and wasted time finding stuff. Different operating systems hide, change or eliminate tags when you move files to and from. Tags are at best an ephemeral way of maintaining a file structure.
Where I find tags useful is in clearly defined controlled vocabulary primarily for process statuse of specific items. In Obsidian I have process tags for where a particular note is in my processing workflow. Or in the case of pictures, in Lightroom to define subject, process and use. But never as a general rule.
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Thank you for the detailed response. I’ve read so many of yours on various forums and really appreciate it.
Alas, it seems to me you are all-in with folder-style hierarchies and I am wanting to be all-out. I don’t want to remember “where” I put anythinf.
I guess we have different definitions of easy when it comes to filing. Youre hunting (for the existing folder/note) and dragging (the new attachment), correct?
Easy to me is cleaning up the inbox in omnifocus. Type one or two letters (it suggest the project or tag), hit enter, the down arrow and repeat. The item disappears from view. I want everything to work that way, and can’t imagine anything how anything could be faster or as simple. It’s the difference between walking to the closet and putting the clean socks in the top drawer vs. just looking at them and saying “top drawer”, right?
I’m not all in but I am heavily influenced by 45 years of working with hierarchical data structures and file management systems on a variety of computing platforms so it’s simple and easy in my mind and fingers. My Obsidian vault is very sparse with folders. Right now a total of 22 folders.
No. I don’t “hunt” for anything (except deer) We’re talking 2 separate things here I think. The first is where I store files like .pdf or .ods or .odt. Things that could be considered attachments to a note. I make a distinction between documents which are self contained and things that for computer reasons are separate files but are part and parcel of the file in question.
The first are what I consider “real” attachments. These supporting materials for a note are never stored in Obsidian. That’s where my file naming and folder system comes into play but it’s not deep it’s wide. My File_Cabinet folder has almost 1000 folders in it. It’s in the sidebar. If I do not already have it open (which is usually is) I can click it and type the first letter and get to that section. I also have Active_Projects in the sidebar, again to reduce friction gtting to it. It has over 100 folders containing material for current active projects.
An example of the latter is if I am converting a rich text file with pictures or illustrations in it the .png or .jpg files are part of the file. They are not separate on their own they only make sense in the context of the text in the rtf file. They are the only kids of attachments I store in Obsidian and I can transclude them into my Obsidian markdown notes so the resulting markdown note file looks like the original rtf file. Adding one of those into a note is simply typing ![[ and start typing the name and Obsidian nearly always finds it for me. no dragging at all. Say that the original obsidian note is in my Obsidian 02_Inbox folder. I am working in my Coyote_account.md note in Obsidian and I have a new item to add that is apicture of coyote using the Acme spring launcher and it failed. I can add in the note "don’t try to sell Coyote one of these !{}{}"spring_launcher.jpg]] and when I look at the note in Obsidian I see the notes and the picture of the spring launcher.
“Real” attachments, the supporting material for a note that are self contained files, are never stored in Obsidian. That’s where my file naming and folder system comes into play but it’s not deep it’s wide. My File_Cabinet folder has almost 1000 folders in it. It’s in the sidebar. If I do not already have it open (which is usually is) I can click it and type the first letter and get to that section. I also have Active_Projects in the sidebar, again to reduce friction getting to it. It has over 100 folders containing material for current active projects.
In Obsidian my Coyote_account.md notes has the following in it “tried to sell Coyote the spring launcher. It failed. He sent us a new contract, detail in project support file in File_Cabinet/Action_Support/Acme_Corp” No links nothing else eeded and in fact 90% of the time I don’t even need that not to know where I might go for more info.
Does that help any?
(* BTW this was written in Obsidian and pasted into the forum *)
(* former Pascal programmer here, sorry for the comments *)
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Yes it helps a lot! I agree that a screen shot that belongs with a snippet of text, for example, should be in something like an obsidian note. It Wouldn’t make sense to tag 5 pics that all pertain to just one note.
Your “real” attachments, as you call them, don’t go in obsidian. I’m with you there, No reason to replicate a file system in obsidian.
But wouldn’t it be nice if the attachments and the notes could always be found together? I think so, and tagging would enable that. (I maintain my attitude that folders are just handicapped tags. They are more limited in their features, and, in most GUIs, harder to apply) Unfortunately, as someone thoroughly frustrated with DT, I don’t know of any other program that provides both the tagging and the “handles any document in its native format”.
… I tried setting up a tag-based system in Finder some years ago. Don’t laugh!
Why? They are separate things and a proper MOC type note in Obsidian is all I need to get to them. That “catalog” is enough for me and avoids the overhead of a tagging system.
I also find applying tags to be far more painful to do than just moving files to their proper location via mosue or evenbetter having Hazel do it for me based on rules I set. What little friction there is gives me a chance to verify I really need to keep the item. For me tags are always harder to apply to general files.
Here are the types of issues I have with tags: For convenience I’m goingot preface my tags with # just so they don’t get lost in the text.
I start a tagging system I have thingss like #coyote and #Acme Corp then I go away for a while and now I add tags like #acme and sale and sales and #predators and #canine stuff things can’t be found. The most common issue I see with tags is for things you do not reference frequently. Did you use plural or singular in your tags? What did you decide Acme Company’s tag was going to be? By looking where you put something and by thinking about naming up front you don’t have to remember that junk, you just automatically go to the location where it is.
For me tags ONLY work with clearly defined and controlled vocabularies and need constant attention. It also is necessary that as soon as you start to apply a tag to an item the system better bring up the ones so you have that are close. It should NEVER create a tag just by you applying it without showing you all the other tags you have and verifying you really need the new one. Otherwise when you get into large systems (like my LightRoom tagging for photographs) you can quickly get so tangled you’re better off deleting them all and starting over. Hierarchical tagging systems are also a must IMO. Say I have a tree of tags #animalia, #chordata, #Mammalia #Artiodactyla #Bovidae #Caprinae #Caprini #Ovis #aries with the last one a synonym for #sheep If I tag a picture with #sheep or #aires then all the upper tags must also be applied. I have LightRoom tags that go even further down that tree #domestic_sheep #Breed_Black_Welsh_Mountain #individual_sheep_name So I can tag a picture with Desert_Weyr_Dobby and everything above it is added too. That makes sens to me because I can search at any level, I can see the tree of tags I have and verify I am not duplicating them and there is only one way to write any given tag.
For organizing projects in Obsidian, I use both tags and index notes (which many Obsidian users call “Maps of Content,” or “MoCs”). Redundancy is the best.
My Obsidian system is evolving fast. Lately, I’m using tags as a temporary classification system, frequently in conjunction with individual blocks in my daily note.
For example, I have a weekly 1:1 meeting with my boss, and if I think of something during the week that I will want to discuss with him, I tag it with his name and then, when preparing for the meeting, I sweep up all the blocks tagged with his name and collect them into a single note, removing the tag.
And even more recently, I think I might want to use notes with links instead of tags. Or maybe tagnotes?
@OogieM describes one of the problems with tags—standardizing nomenclature. In theory, autocomplete should take care of that.
Another problem with tags is that they are not standardized across applications. Right now, tags start with an octothorpe. Will that be true in 10 years? Is that true if you switch from Obsidian to something else? You can’t take that for granted.
The rigidity of folder systems, which tag enthusiasts dislike, is also a virtue—as Eleanor Konik notes in this great essay:
I like making a decision once and sticking with it. A folder only has one name. You decide whether the folder should be “Acme” or “Acme Corp.” and that’s that. A document only lives in one folder (unless you do hijinks like symlinks or DevonThink replicants—but let’s pretend those don’t exist). When I first moved out on my own and went grocery shopping for the first time I was overwhelmed by the choices of toothpaste. Sometime around 1990 I just decided the heck with it I’m just buying Tom’s of Maine. And that is the only toothpaste I’ve ever bought since.
I only bought DT a few months ago so I’m very much a newbie, but my thought process may be helpful to other people considering how to corral their personal libraries and data into some sort of system so I thought I’d share my thought process.
My problem:
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I had files spread across multiple systems, because my employers use A, B and C, I use Y, app Z only uses its native system, etc, etc. I initially started looking for a better way because there were too many places to look and it was getting frustrating.
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I read a lot and make diligent notes, but had no system for storing these in a useful manner. I also take a lot of screengrabs, which get filed in a very ad-hoc manner.
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I try to save articles I’ve read online that I like, but had no good system for doing this. Several times in the last year I’ve wasted hours trying to find an article “I know I saved somewhere” for someone.
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My vocation requires me to be well-read, abreast of developments and able to find citations/data within a reasonable timeframe. The simple truth is that sometimes I know I’ve read that “using alpha can lead to development of beta”, but I don’t know where I’ve read it, or how to find it again. Google can be very irritating with this, finding thousands of results that mention alpha and beta, and not the one you know you’ve read in the last year
My demands:
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I’m being demanding, but it’s 2022 and I want just a few apps that do it all for me. I do not want 20 different apps that I have to learn, who all do one thing really well. I’m sorry but life is short
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Life is also expensive. I’m not paying subscriptions for 20+ apps. In fact, I want to avoid ongoing subscriptions wherever possible. I remember the good old days when you bought a piece of software and it was yours to own on your computer. I’m not getting tied into a system I might not like in a few years.
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I am fed up with the proliferation of native cloud services. I have a computer with its own hard-drive, and I’m not storing my personal data in some warehouse in California that I have to pay for the privilege of using (I tried Evernote a few times but this was my main sticking point).
The solution:
To me, Devonthink was the only solution. It meets all of my demands, and addresses most of my problems. It was a one-off cost, files are stored natively on my Mac so there are no proprietary issues and access isn’t dependent on internet, it can handle all the types of files I use in one system and it plays well with others when it can’t handle them itself (e.g. Word). The search function is superb, it can save web articles to pdf (the saving and filing of these alone would’ve made it worth it in my book), and everything is finally coming into one place.
It has been a huge amount of work for me to move everything into one system. However, I had that work regardless of what software I chose, and if in future I do decide to leave DT, all those files are on my Mac.
The cost was eye-watering, but as it replaces multiple apps AND saves me time, it pays for itself very quickly. E.g.
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Pocket Premium (for saving offline web content) - £35.99 yearly
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Evernote Personal (web clippings, notes etc) - £71.88 AND a monthly size limit
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I pay an annual sub for a personal email address. Now that I’m archiving emails on DT (with much better search functions!), I’ve dropped to the basic pricing as I have no need for GBs for space.
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I have both iCloud and Dropbox subscriptions (because some apps needed one or the other) but I will be dropping to the free Dropbox now I don’t have loads of files in it: £95.98 per year. I’ve not decided what to do about iCloud yet as I have a family sharing, so that’s not considered replaced yet.
You can see how DT can quickly pay for itself just in tech costs, and I’m not trying very hard (these are off the top of my head, and doesn’t include note-taking apps I’ve experimented with, etc.).
Yes, you have to learn a lot with DT and I know nothing about it really, but what I have learnt has been rewarding. I’ve now written two scripts of my own, learnt Markdown and my work is easier than ever as I can find files easily, which allows me to spend time on the things my employers actually pay me for (using that info, not looking for it!).
P.S. my filing system would make people cry, but it doesn’t matter. I have a couple of top level folders and I’m consistent with my file naming. DT does the rest.
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This. I’m in the middle of a year-long process of extracting myself from and/or avoiding apps that require me to use their cloud in favor of apps that work just fine if my files are stored on a drive that I control—be it my mac’s internal hard drive, attached storage, or the cloud storage service of my choosing.
I’m taking a different approach here. I’ve started indexing certain kinds of files in DT rather than storing them there so that I can put them in a directory that other apps can access as well. I’m moving my reference material out of the DTP databases where they currently reside into Dropbox folders that I can both index in DTP and access from other apps as well—e.g., Obsidian, PDFexpert / PDFpen (I use both), Obsidian, Bookends, etc. (Records—e.g., invoices, account statements, official documents and filings in the like—will still live in a DTP database.)
An aside: I’m also disengaging from apps that require me to store my files in iCloud Drive. Why? Because many of the files I work with day-to-day live on attached storage, not my hard drive, and iCloud Drive, unlike Dropbox, only works if you keep your files on your hard drive. I make an exception for Obsidian; the only files in my various vaults are plain-text markdown files that don’t take up much space.