Why use DevonThink with Obsidian?

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I’m struggling with my Obsidian setup—I think it’s too complicated.

In addition to Markdown documents, I work with a lot of Microsoft Word documents, PDFs and Web URLs. Until now, I’ve stored all of those in Obsidian — even the Word docs.

Now, I think maybe I’d be better off keeping Obsidian for just Markdown documents and embedded images. Which is how most people seem to use it.

I’m a Mac user, and I know many Mac Obsidian users use DevonThink in conjunction with Obsidian for just the use case I describe. Markdown goes in Obsidian, everything else in DevonThink.

My question is: Why?

The main benefit, as I see it, is that DevonThink gives each document a unique URL, which can then be integrated into Obsidian. But there are other ways to do that, and these ways might be more lightweight than DevonThink:

  • Use Hookmark.
  • Create a separate Obsidian vault solely for storing non-Markdown reference documents.
  • Just use the Mac filesystem and use path links. In this case, you could never move your reference documents from their existing folders, or else you’d break the link.
  • Another app like Keep it or EagleFiler, which also serve as document libraries with links to documents, but are lighter weight than DevonThink.

Why do you use DevonThink with Obsidian?

(Perfectly valid answer, but uninteresting for this discussion: “Because I’ve used DevonThink for many years, it works for me, and I see no reason to change.” However, this answer can be made very interesting indeed if you tell us why it works for you.)

I initially posted this to the Obsidian forum a few minutes ago, but I realize that @MacSparky is a DevonThink + Obsidian user and has talked about it on a recent MPU, so I figured I’d ask here. David? I think last time we discussed this you said you like DevonThink’s auto-sorting; is that still the case?

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DT == A storage and search system for all documents. Sync’s reliably across iPhone/iPad/Mac. Mine stores ~30GB of files.

Obsidian - for writing my thoughts. Sometimes based on documents in DT.

FWIW I also use Readwise for reading and highlighting books and articles. Key detail I never trust Readwise with the originals.

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But why use DT for that rather than the Finder, Hookmark, a separate Obsidian vault, Keep It, EagleFiler, etc.?

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Sync to iOS/iPadOS with links that work across the board. Further, rock solid search. Obsidian wouldn’t deal well with search 30+GB.

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I suppose search, similar files, easy import, smart rules, multiple sync engines would be the benefits.

If you just want links and storage, Hookmark + Finder seems good enough. I usually Hookmark out of DT rather than use Copy Item Link.

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How do you address the issue that Hookmark is weak at providing an indication of what item(s) are hooked?

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I’m not following, sorry. Meaning how Hookmark contextual groupings are invisible until you hook an item to see if anything else is associated?

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Correct

DT Item links are much more obvious

Hookmarks only help if you did the linking and you remember what documents you linked

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This topic comes up fairly frequently generally in in PKM circles, but I remain unconvinced that it’s sensible to compare the two apps. DevonThink is at its core a database and file management system that is also able to create, display and edit files in certain formats including markdown. Obsidian is markdown software that also offers some file management. They’re not really the same, and whether you need one or both probably depends on your life needs and wants.

Having given my caveat emptor statement: For me, I use DevonThink, and adding Obsidian didn’t help with my setup for two reasons:

  1. I work in science and I handle a lot of PDFs, but also other things like Word Docs, emails, spreadsheets, jpegs, etc. (All normal stuff. I also handle GIS files but I don’t put them in DevonThink except very occasionally, because they’re very large files and there’s no need for it.)
  2. I like to maintain a strict folder structure, and I keep my notes in their relevant folders with their source files and other notes on the same topic.

Adding Obsidian to this didn’t work for me because it creates its own vaults, isolating my notes from their source files, which to me was a deal-breaker (I tried working that way for a few months, but it’s just not how I’m comfortable working). It also can’t handle every file type I throw at it, which for me added friction I didn’t need.

Why don’t I just use Finder with Hookmark?

That is probably a valid set-up for many folks. For me, when I was looking for a system, I just wanted one central place I could store all my files, navigate easily, and never lose anything ever again (previously, I had stuff scattered across various cloud storages and apps, and it was a pain remembering where to look for things). DT fit the bill for me, with a clean interface where I could place and sort all my files according to my own whims. The search is amazing, especially when you start using boolean operators (which I learnt about in order to enhance my DT searches). I am also able to focus my searches precisely - in addition to searching at a database level, I can also just search specific folders, which enables me to limit or widen my searches depending on what I need. I use this function multiple times a day and it’s so simple - just one click to say where I need my search to take place.

For me another core functionality is being able to track progress on files. The read/unread function is a key part of my set-up, and enables me to track very easily what I’ve not read yet. As my work and life generally needs a lot of nonfiction reading, this has meant I can put all my PDFs in one app and process them in the same app (annotate and then create notes from those annotations. All in one app, with standardisation which means it can be read by any other app!!!).

Finally, I very quickly started using the “smart rules” function to automate some actions that DT could just do without my involvement. I have many smart rules running that simply re-name certain files for me. For example, I save a couple of newsletters I receive and have a smart rule that standardises the file name whenever I added an “issue” to DT and moves the file to the right place. These are just quality of life improvements that save me a couple of minutes admin, but make life easier for future me!

I will end by saying that Obsidian is a great app, it just doesn’t fit my workflow and preferences. If I wasn’t handling so many PDFs and images I’d probably be happy with it.

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Gotcha. I figured it would be intentional linking to Finder files/folders from Obsidian documents, In Mitch’s case. Hookmark would just be providing the hook://file/... URLs to paste into the documents.

If he needs document classification/suggestion lists, agreed, Finder alone isn’t going to cut it. But he’s also not getting that from Obsidian right now (or at least not much of it.)

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Because DT is better at managing evertything that is a file and is faster at organisation and jumping to files and folders and has an arguably better UI. Obsidian has a better Markdown editor and offers more flexiblity in managing information based on metadata and database queries.

Now my point is: I don’t use Obsidian on top of DT, nor I use DT on top of Obsidian. I consider them as equals, and they both read from the same iCloud Drive folder that I index in DT and is the root of my vault in Obsidian. The source of truth, then, is iCloud Drive, not DT or Obsidian. But both happen to collaborate in terms of internal links between notes.

For this setup to work I have to relinquish DT own database syncing (out of caution: don’t mix iCloud Drive and DT sync at the same time!) and not using Obsidian mobile. So I basically do not have working capabilities on mobile devices, if I need something I need to access it using the regular Files app on iOS/iPadOS. But this is a setup that works for me.

Obsidian on desktop seems to syncs itself between computers without issue (even plugins, queries…) but DT databases and configs on my desktop computers (home and work) are totally separate, they just happen to index the same files so tags and smart DT features are local-only.

This way of working has been more or less useful for me but I am not endorsing it in any way, though.

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Ditto. I maintain multiple DT databases, each dedicated to a particular area of focus. While I do import documents into the databases that are purely administrative in function (e.g., the one I have set up for some estates and trusts I administer), I only index the files in my research and learning database.

Here’s my set up:

  1. I have a separate DT DB for research and learning.
  2. I only use Obsidian for notes related to my research and learning.
  3. I point DT at my Obsidian vault (i.e., I index them).
  4. I also point DT at the folders where I store ePubs and PDFs related to my research and learning (again, I index them).
  5. I’m then in a position to use DT’s powerful tools to search all my research materials as needed. There’s nothing like typing a search term into DT and having it trawl through hundreds of articles, books, and notes to find what you’re looking for. (I believe EagleFiler also has some powerful search tools, but I’ve never used it.)

I only use Obsidian for notes; I don’t think it’s well-suited to be a large-scale document repsitory.

If you need a place to store notes and documents, but don’t need everything that’s in DT, you may want to consider Notebooks.app.

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Indeed, but for me the magic moment was the realisation that DT can suggest where you should move a particular file.

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Thank you, everyone.

And here’s an interesting answer from the Obsidian forum.

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@krocnyc Are you a T&E lawyer?

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I’m not any kind of lawyer, but I do handle the admin for couple of trusts for family members and am in the process of winding up a couple of estates. One of the estates involves some unduly complicated interlocking trusts (especially given the relatively modest dollar amounts involved), and DTP is just the tool you need to trawl through the attendant legal documents, tax returns, and governmental filings.

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