624: Apple Apps That Need Some Polishing

Maybe you left it off because it doesnā€™t need polishing. It needs a complete rework. Yes, Iā€™m thinking of Podcasts. A complete train wreck.

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interesting how experiences can vary so much. I use Apple Podcasts as my podcast client every day and have no issues with it.

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I have to say, Stephenā€™s ā€œpolishing the appleā€ comment perfectly describes to me what modern Apple isnā€™t focused on. Itā€™s the difference between customer service back when I bought my first Mac Mini (2012) and, for example, when I sent my PowerBeats Pro in for service a ways back.

I seem to recall the experience of buying the Mac Mini was much less hurried and rushed, and they were more focused on making sure I got something that worked for me. These days it feels like itā€™s more of a ā€œthereā€™s the phones, thereā€™s the iPads, what can I ring up for you?ā€ in the store.

Regarding the reverse of ā€œpolishing the appleā€, the issue with the PowerBeats was battery life related, and based on tracking they didnā€™t even have it at the depot long enough to charge and discharge the batteries. While it was there they removed a piece of velcro from the outside bottom of the case (I had a little piece of the loop side so that it doesnā€™t get knocked off the side table at night), presumably because it didnā€™t belong there - but they didnā€™t even bother to wipe out the inside of the case. Which would seem to be a relevant thing if theyā€™re doing detailed troubleshooting of charging and battery life.

I realize theyā€™re a big company - definitely bigger than they were in 2012. I realize there are a lot of moving parts. But with both software and customer service, it feels like the experience just isnā€™t as polished as it used to be.

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Great episode, and I thought Iā€™d add a few points.

I echo @webwalrus on the nice touch of the polishing cloth analogy.

Mail

My biggest Mail gripe is actually on the linking. Iā€™ve found it works well on macOS, well on iPadOS, but is completely unreliable on my phone if a message is anywhere but in the Inbox.

Calendar

No major issues with the app, but I have a problem on the iCloud service side. When my wife sends me a calendar invite (sheā€™s on iCloud), it never gets properly added to my calendar when I hit the ā€œAcceptā€ button. I have no issues with invites from GMail, or Outlook or other services, but itā€™s really unreliable.

Safari

Thereā€™s an intangible quality to Safari that in many ways, makes it feel really polished. Way more so than the other common browsers. It has itā€™s issues, but overall I think Apple does a decent job of covering the basics. You do need a backup browser though.

Music

As a local music type of person, the app has gotten pretty hostile. Everything is so geared towards Apple Music. I still buy actual music from the iTunes store, but I donā€™t buy enough to justify the cost of Apple Music and I feel like Iā€™m being punished. I also know Iā€™m getting more and more into the minority on this point.

System Preferences

Everything Stephen said

Ending on a high note

Thank you again for hosting and maintaining this awesome forum. I know itā€™s been a bunch of trials the last few months, and Iā€™m glad you have both sorted it out and reduced your costs. This and the Automators forums have been great sources of research and community for me.

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We really focused more on the productivity angle, but I agree about Podcasts. Itā€™s a mess.

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Iā€™m fairly sure that the reason a lot of Unix command line tools are outdated is because of changes in licensing which make them incompatible with a non-fully-open source operating system like macOS. Pretty sure thatā€™s why curl is so old, and why they switched from bash to zsh.

I suspect the other reason is because of security issues in PHP or python or even bash, and Apple doesnā€™t want to be responsible for dealing with them. Thatā€™s not a great reason in my book, but I wouldnā€™t be surprised if that had something to do with it too.

I think this is my main problem with Safari, and why some people may not use it at all.

If you need another browser for when Safari doesnā€™t work, itā€™s easier to just use the other browser all the time.

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IMO, the answer to most of the ā€œwhyā€ questions in this episode is Marketing. They want their Show & Tell event every fall and that is the driving force behind what features get attention. I stopped cutting Apple slack when they passed the $1 Trillion mark. The only excuse they get to use now is ā€œthe technology to do that doesnā€™t existā€. As far as everything else I think most of their problems are due to the choices they make.

Perhaps they arenā€™t able to hire enough programmers. From what Iā€™ve read thatā€™s a problem in the tech industry. So as @ismh mentioned, perhaps the yearly release needs to go. Then instead of forcing everyone to work to a deadline the programmers can work on software until it is ready. Why the rush? Many professionals wonā€™t upgrade their Macs for months, or even a year or more, after a major macOS release. And the public is easy, they can be wowed with a simple UI change.

The search in email isnā€™t great. Neither is search in the Finder, Music, or App Store. And iCloud has been plagued with sync problems since day one. Perhaps Apple thinks these and other problem areas are ā€œgood enoughā€. Or perhaps they are content to let third parties come up with solutions when ā€œgood enoughā€ isnā€™t good enough for us. That has been my solution.

When there isnā€™t ā€˜an app for thatā€™ there is usually a cloud based solution. I need reliability so I use Google or Dropbox instead of iCloud. I need to work with non Mac users so I use Microsoft 365. I prefer to work primarily on an iPad and cloud alternatives make that possible.

Iā€™m not dumping on Apple, I understand business. And they do make excellent hardware. But with few exceptions, they choose to make unremarkable software. The iPad has reached a point where it is a useful ā€œcomputerā€ and the changes to the Mac havenā€™t been too restrictive, so Iā€™m satisfied with the current situation.

But waiting on Apple to improve something is only for the young.


This is where someone replies ā€œOK Boomerā€ :slight_smile:

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In general, I think itā€™s wise to always have a backup browser. I almost never need one (like @anon20961960) said, but sometimes for troubleshooting, itā€™s great to have.

The one aspect I did miss though is that Safariā€™s dev tools are definitely lacking compared to Firefox or Chrome. Iā€™m a basic web programmer (most of my experience is server side), but when playing around, I definitely need to use FF.

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One thing I donā€™t agree with is the comment that 90% people use apps like Mail and Calendar.

With older people this is true, but I teach Gen Z and millennials and they are all-in with web apps.

I teach 500 students a semester and Iā€™ve yet to see one that uses Mail. They use Gmail and Google Calendar on the all devices.

Even my colleagues all use Outlook. I know as their attachments donā€™t work with Apple Mail unless you install and subscribe to Letter Opener.

I think home users who arenā€™t working for a company or studying may tend to use Mail, but professionals and students hardly ever use it.

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Podcasts is such an interesting app, because I really do want to love it. I love the discovery experience, and I donā€™t think anyone does a better job at surfacing new podcasts I might like in an editorial fashion.

I donā€™t even have the same reliability concerns as others do ā€“ in general, the syncing seems fine. Maybe not bulletproof compared to Overcast and others, but problems seem few and far between for me.

My biggest problem, though, is just paradigm. I feel like it makes me justā€¦ think too much. When I save an episode, what does that mean? It now appears in my list of shows (I think?), whether Iā€™m subscribed to it or not, but itā€™s in with all the shows I am subscribed to. Latest episdoes? How come this is only showing some? oh, itā€™s because I can customize how far back I want to go. Okay, a show has an episode I donā€™t want to listen to now, or maybe ever. How do I remove it from Latest Episodes? I can mark it as played, but then I donā€™t want to later think that I actually did listen to it.

Itā€™s all just too much. Give me the Podcasts app discovery experience + media control keys on Mac, with Overcast style episode management, and Iā€™d be happy.

On the other hand, I wish more apps adopted Castroā€™s Inbox / Queue functionality, as it is totally unmatched but everything else about the app feels subpar compared to Overcast.

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I agree that itā€™s smart to have one, but I think it should be resorted to mainly for troubleshooting purposes when thereā€™s a critical issue - not when the dev of a particular browser decides to not support otherwise-valid code.

Regarding the reported Calendar issues that mostly related to syncā€™ing, Iā€™m deeply suspicious those are due to using iCloud as the syncing back-end. As a family we saw similar issues until we switched the syncing backend from iCloud to google ~5 years ago. We have seen near zero such issues since then. (Our move from iCloud to Google for calendar syncing was prompted by my job move to a company that is very much a google-shop and that there were advantages to having all my calendars in one service.) It took only a little effort to switch everyone over. And, from the point of view of ā€œusersā€ thereā€™s no difference. My less technical family member has had no issues and probably couldnā€™t even tell you what service their calendar syncs with.

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Thatā€™s been my experience as well. Iā€™ve found the same is true for Contacts.

Yes, but who wants to use Google when they are constantly violating your privacy? They even tell you how they are doing it!!!

I have a Google account and wish I could get rid of it. To me it is rather scary that they take such liberties with peopleā€™s information.

Iā€™m not crazy about Mail but I really have no specific problems. They are doing ok there.

Dude, podcasts is horrible. I gave it a serious try when I switched to iPhone and Mac this past year and almost immediately found it extremely inconvenient to use. Switched to Overcast, which I dig.

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I wonder how much of a problem it is for brand new users that havenā€™t ever used a podcast client before. I had to try it out to try and get somebody else a podcast download, and it wasnā€™t great - but not sure whether thatā€™s just me bringing my existing paradigm.

When I turned 50 I started getting Happy Birthday cards from AARP, Beltone hearing aids, Neptune Creamation services :astonished:, and several others.

So where did they get my birthday, or my name and address? The purchased it legally. Everyone from our credit card company to our grocery store sells what they know about us. Iā€™ve accepted the fact that everything that is known about me, that is not protected by law like my medical records, is for sale.

And probably, so is the data protected by law. :frowning_face:

The News app is the app I use most often that I hate most. I use it daily. Itā€™s fine on the iPad, but on the Mac, it acts like an iPad app. In particular, Cmd-home doesnā€™t take me to the top of the app.

Apple should just ditch the Mac app and run news in the browser. Either that, or make the News app behave like a native Mac app.

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