Anybody here uses an eink tablet like boox, supernote or remarkable? What’s your workflow?

Hardware
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I tried out the Scribe this week. I was surprised at how bad it is to annotate a PDF and then export it out, basically, you can’t.

My current workflow is to read and annotate books and documents in PDF form, then use DEVONthink’s Summarize Annotations tool to create a document with my highlights and notes that link back to the relevant page in the PDF. I typically use the PDF Viewer app on my Mac and iPad to do this as it can save any changes to the PDF in place.

When you try and annotate a PDF in the Scribe by adding a highlight or note you can’t even use the pen, just your finger, the pen is only useful for drawing on the PDF.

Exported PDFs don’t include your annotations in place, they are added at the end of the document, without any links to the source.

The Scribe will be going back, which is a shame as I like the hardware, but the software is so lacking.

Does anyone have suggestions for an e-ink device that can annotate and export correctly?

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96

Ahh, we could’ve warned you :grimacing: PDF handling is a minefield. My workflow is the same as yours, so as a rule I will not use PDFs in any app/device that handles PDFs in a non-standard manner.

Scribe and I believe Remarkable both use non-standard formats so are no good for moving PDF annotations across different devices and systems.

The Boox line is basically just an Android operating system so is fine, and you can just pick a PDF app that uses standard annotation.

The others can advise on other e-ink devices as I didn’t research them as closely. I think the Boox Air 2 Plus is as close as I can get to “iPad as e-ink device” but the fact it was Android stopped me from purchasing. I’ve seen some good workflows with it though and people have stripped it down to just the handful of apps they want, and it looks good.

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I annotate pdfs on the Scribe without any problems. Simply mark them up with the pencil. Then use the share option to quick send the document to the email account you have set up. You then have the annotated pdf on whatever device you want and you can save them into Devonthink. The annotations are where you wrote them, not at the end of the document.

I haven’t annotated a document for a few days, so I just went through this process to make sure that it still can be done. No problems. I have a pdf file that I just annotated sitting in the Inbox of Devonthink. The annotations are where I put them.

Certainly, the method for sharing the documents from the Scribe could be better, but it works for me.

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98

The issue of whether the Scribe’s handling of PDFs is compatible with other apps has come up before on this forum. There are cases when it isn’t compatible. But I’m finding that I can go back forth from the Scribe to Devonthink to Goodnotes.

Here is a screen shot of the test I just made. The article was annotated with Scribe, exported to the Mac, opened with Goodnotes on the Mac, edited on the iPad with Goodnotes and transferred to Devonthink on the Mac, where the screenshot was made.

Annotation test
Annotation test1920×2255 553 KB

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Does DevonThink recognize these annotations as annotations, meaning that they can be summarized and exported separate from the document?

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Sadly, no. The files are flattened. I’ve been happy with just writing directly on the pdf files and seeing my annotations when I go back through an article. I can see now I should be using the summarize feature, in which case the Scribe will be lacking.

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Hi,

When I refer to annotation I also mean highlighting text, adding notes (embedded) as well as draw. The Scribe can do all but you can’t (from what I can see) make use of them in DEVONthink, Preview, etc as they are flattened.

In this example, I made a note (1), highlighted some text (2), used the pen to highlight (3), and wrote a note (4). The Kindle added my embedded note at the end of the document but does not link to the source, this would be a problem in a 300-page book. In this example highlight (2) was not recorded, I am sure if have seen this done before so may be a bug.

As it is flattened you can’t take advantage of DEVONthinks Summarize Annotations tool which is s deal breaker for me.

Kindle Export
Kindle Export1944×1960 321 KB

The other annoying export problem is the email you can send only provides a link to the PDF which means you can’t use Applescript etc to process the email.

Amazon Email
Amazon Email2298×632 61.7 KB

Unfortunately for my workflow, the Scribe is not of use. I was really hoping it would be as it is smaller and easier to carry to/from work. I will just keep having to use my iPad Pro 12.9 with PDF Viewer but still hope to add an e-ink device to my workflow someday.

102

This is partly what we’re referring to when we describe a PDF file as being compatible. As you note, Scribe is not handling annotations in a compatible manner (incidentally neither is GoodNotes, so just be aware of that).

There are two issues: how are the annotations being written to the file, and are the markups being flattened into the final export. I’m only going to talk about the first issue.

There is no official PDF standard (i.e. different software is doing different things) but we are drifting towards a standard, and Annotations already have an accepted format which many apps adhere to in order to ensure inter-operability (Adobe of course, DevonThink, PDF Expert, PDF Viewer, GoodReader, Highlights, etc., etc.).

Other software, notably GoodNotes, isn’t using standard annotation formats, which means there isn’t inter-operability. When you annotate a PDF with their software, you’re basically drawing on it (adding a vector layer) instead of using the standard annotation functions available in the PDF file format. Their own software can (and should!) understand what is drawn in the file, but to other apps it’s not readable. If you need to extract information from that file, using something other than your eyes, you will need to go back to the app you used to make the markings.

In contrast, apps thats use the standard annotation functions in PDF are marking up a standardised text layer. It’s readable by any app that is following the standard annotation convention, and you therefore don’t need to go back to the app that created the annotations in order to interact with them.

Whether you actually care about any of this depends on how you are using PDFs and your own workflows. I have PDFs I read in GoodNotes, because I actually do want to scribble over them and I don’t need compatible annotations. But for basic reading and analysing of texts, my preference is standard annotations. I need other apps to be able to extract info from those annotations, and I need to be able to edit them regardless of the availability of future software.

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103

Thanks for explaining these limitations of the Scribe. I didn’t realize people made such good use of their annotations in Devonthink.

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Thanks for posting. I gather that I will need to annotate on the iPad if I want to make the best use of my annotations of pdf files. I have paid subscriptions to GoodNotes and Notability. I was planning to drop the Notability subscription. I’m not sure now whether to stick with Notability or use one of the other apps you listed.

105

Supernote :slight_smile: , check out their digest function.

106

Thought I’d revive the thread with this little review … becoming a bit of a fanboy!
@Jvet and I still completely missed the Digest function …

SuperNote wins the battle of the e-Inks!

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107

I thought I would revive this thread because I have jumped in and bought a Boox :scream: This is probably the longest I have dithered over a tech purchase, and I think it reflects the compromises we predominantly Apple-first users have to make because of the market at present.

I am only a couple of days into setting up and using, but I wanted to share some initial first impressions. I have however told myself quite firmly that I will review the device after 2 weeks and see if it’s really working for me and I will return it if it’s not right (this is now a public oath!).

I bought the Boox Go 10.3. There’s honestly not much to say compared to other e-ink readers - it’s like comparing different bars of Cadbury’s. They might have different flavours but it’s still all Cadbury’s chocolate

Key points:

  • Black and white screen
  • No backlight
  • Good price compared to other popular models on the market at present

My predominant use case is reading, of PDFs, books and web articles. To that end, my priorities are:

  • PDF reader that handles standard annotations
  • Readwise Reader
  • Kindle
  • Libby (my library app)
  • a reliable and effective way to sync back to my Apple ecosystem (this is actually my biggest priority but I’m listing last because if I can’t read it makes the whole device redundant)

Initial impressions:

  • Android is not Apple. It’s not been as steep a learning curve as I was concerned about, but equally there are many MANY little things where I think “this would be so much better on Apple OS”. I have spent easily over 6 hours the last two days setting things up how I like and I’m sure more things will emerge over the coming days. I really take for granted how easy setting up a new Apple device is as our iCloud account knows so much about us already. This includes big things like having to find passwords for apps, but also little things like resetting pen preferences in some apps.
  • My brain may never be the same after spending a brain-melting 3 hours trying to get sync working. I hated everything about the experience. I have however now successfully set up SyncThing and I think I understand what I’ve done :laughing: There is less friction trying to set up a cloud sync (I initially set up Dropbox to see how it worked and it was only a 20 min job to set up and understand the basic mechanics). The Boox Android flavour has some built-in cloud sync options that make managing cloud syncs slightly easier. I’ve chosen a slightly harder route because I don’t want to use cloud sync and SyncThing is basically a direct connection between devices (it’s also open source and free).
  • Android is not Apple. I really dislike that I am not in my personal Apple ecosystem with the same apps, my files in the right places, etc.
  • The native PDF reader is very good. I see lots of folks online downloading different PDF readers from the Google Play Store. I have no idea why, Boox’s Neo Reader offers all the functionality of a standard PDF reader, has a semi-customisable menu and handles annotations in a standard format so that they are compatible with other software.
  • To that end, worth noting I have spent no money on other apps, and have only downloaded the above 3 apps to my account (Reader, Kindle, Libby EDITED TO ADD: I also downloaded SyncThing to handle the sync). PDF handling can be done by the device, and the note-taking app is really good.
  • Android is not Apple. The file management system is a horror. Hello, Windows. I have not missed you at all.
  • Possibly this screen is too small for comfortable PDF reading. Originally (in 2022 and 2023!) I was considering one of the larger e-ink readers (A4-ish size) so that PDFs could be near to original proportions. When I finally committed to this purchase I went smaller as I wasn’t sure about the comfort of holding the device for long periods (this is on the face of it a daft concern given that I use a iPad Pro 12.9 inch as my main reading device and don’t really care about its size and weight). The font size of a PDF is just on the wrong-size of too small, and zooming in and out for reading is not a comfortable experience (it won’t be on any e-ink device really).
  • On that note, WOW these devices are so thin and light! It blows my mind. If anything, it’s too thin - it’s hard to pick up from a hard surface! I’m so impressed though. Using the device as a notebook is honestly more preferable than using a notebook - it’s so thin your hand is hardly raised at all from the desk.

Conclusions:

  • I’m really not happy about the level of friction I’ve had to introduce into my workflows to accommodate a non-Apple device. I have to think more about retrieving files from DevonThink, moving things about, finding passwords… I really don’t know whether at the end of my 2 weeks I will think it is worth it.
  • Having said that, e-ink is such a pleasure to use for reading and note-taking in a way that iPads will never be able to mimic.
  • If a genie only gave me one wish, after I had wished for more wishes :wink: I would definitely be asking for an e-ink iOS device. It’s so frustrating Apple hasn’t already entered this market (aside from me desperately wanting such a device, I think Apple’s developing a product would also help consolidate some of the proliferation of devices currently going on which makes it very hard for customers to know what to buy).

I’m happy to answer questions if you want me to test anything or share my opinion.

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108

That would be the dream! I have a kindle for now. But if I were to replace it, I would go for an Android eink device myself.

How is your experience after around an additional week?

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109

I am more convinced than ever that Apple need to release an e-ink device.

I’m going to keep the device because I really like the e-ink screen and the screen offsets the annoyances I have.

I really dislike that I’m not in my own Apple ecosystem and I have to think about moving things to the Boox so I can read them. Whilst part of me appreciates the conscious consideration of what I need to read, most of me just wants to open DevonThink to get to my files.

I’ve struggled a bit with SyncThing, which isn’t Android’s fault (it’s a third party open source app) but since I only have to use it because I’ve ventured on to a device outside Apple they’re getting the blame anyway. I’ve got sync working between my Mac and my e-reader, but I’ve realised over the last few days I’m often on my iPad when I decide I need to move a file over, and trying to cheat the system by moving my SyncThing folders to my iCloud Drive didn’t work (the Mac has to be on for the sync to happen).

Readwise’s Reader app is quite good I think. It’s much slower than on iPad, but I don’t really care, I’m there to read and it’s not a race. I turn off the internet so it doesn’t try to download images.

The Kindle app is good. Most people probably don’t need a Kindle device, any e-ink reader will be good if you have this app.

Not having a backlight has actually been fine for me. I may feel differently once winter kicks in and it’s dark by 4pm, but right now if it’s too dark to read then I shouldn’t be reading!

I’m considering this a “temporary” (=couple of years) device while Apple gets its act together :joy:

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110

One other thing I didn’t buy device for and hadn’t anticipated: writing on the device is a delight. I write notes on my iPad a lot and have a pretty good system set up, and I had no intention of interfering with this. But I like to tinker and test my new toys so I spent some time choosing pen settings and finding what I liked, and I’ve found myself reaching for the e-reader several times during meetings when I’ve needed to take notes. It’s not colour and I can’t screengrab stuff on the go, but for scribbling notes on the fly it’s so good. Better than iPad.

Because of this, I got intrigued about what else I might enjoy, so I’ve connected my Bluetooth keyboard to it and downloaded a markdown app, but I’ve not tried it yet.

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111

Have you tried LocalSend? It’s an open-source, cross-platform, peer-to-peer, E2EE alternative to AirDrop.

112

Technically, I find the e-ink devices with Android very interesting, but I have a big trust problem with them: no official Google Android and dubious Chinese manufacturers. For example Onyx:

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113

I wonder if it’s possible to flash alternative ROMs on them

114

I wonder if it’s possible to open one of them without wrecking it? :rofl:

EDIT TO ADD: Apparently I know nothing about Android and Android tablets as I did not know this could be done via cable and software downloaded from somewhere. :roll_eyes:

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