I’m not sure who to be more disappointed in, Microsoft or Apple. Microsoft for disabling the protocol that Mail uses to connect to Office365 in October, or Apple for not updating Mail for so long it’s not going to be functional anymore.
I’ve been using Mail for work and personal for a very long time. It’s going to be painful to have to change my habits to use a different app. Or, ugg… the web interface, because there’s no way in God’s green earth I’m going to install Outlook.
Well, this is odd. I have Apple Mail connected to Office365 on my desktop. I just checked and it’s working.
However, I primarily use Outlook to do Office365 email and calendaring. Not my first choice, but it’s fine. What do you find objectionable about it, @ibuys ?
I think the main issue is that the current Apple integration of Outlook mail will stop working in October 2026 as per announcements made from both parties.
Eventually, Apple is going to migrate to the new Graph API but it looks like it’s not going to be in place soon enough to avoid disruptions for many users.
It’s Microsoft’s new API for all their cloud based services. Email API runs on a legacy protocol (SOAP), but they are looking to unify everything under the new REST API called Graph API.
This is very disappointing from Apple. Reading through Tsai’s blog post, Apple had ample notice about these changes and hasn’t done anything about them (on the Mac—iOS/iPadOS will be fine).
I had planned to evaluate switching back tot he basic calendar/mail/contacts apps after the Golden Gate update. But it seems like I’ll have to stick with my current MailMate/Fantastical/Cardhop combo at least until Apple gets its act together. Hopefully the Siri AI functionality (searching my O365 calendars, emails, contacts) will still work after this transition; though I’m not counting on it.
eM Client 11 BETA is here, bringing a huge range of new features and improvements.
It introduces native ARM and x64 support, MS Graph support, the brand-new eM Sync service for synchronizing settings, Matrix chat, a handy Command Palette, message Pinning, customizable Account colors, and much more.
And that’s just the beginning. We’ve also taken AI further than ever with a whole new suite of features, including AI Assistant, writing personalization, Summarize, Task and Event detection, Quick reply buttons, and built-in MCP support for connecting AI assistants directly to your mailbox.
On their support forum, I read that they had Graph API support for two years, but that Microsoft hadn’t fixed all of the problems on their end yet. eM Client may be a solution, but it’s kind of cramped on smaller screens. There are customizations features in Appearance | Layout to compress the lists.
I’ve been following this with concern as well. It’s not just Mail.app on MacOS, the calendar, reminders and contacts are impacted.
There’s been bugginess in all of those. I’ve had to reset calendar sync every few months, and reminders sync hasn’t worked for me for some time now.
I use Agenda to manage things, and I really appreciate how it integrates with the Apple frameworks. If calendar sync with MS365 breaks, even for a while, it’s going to make Agenda not a viable choice on my end. I would think NotePlan will have the same challenges - if you organize your workflows by events.
Not really such a lead time–Microsoft has been slow to complete and iron out Graph. There are still missing features. There are other clients or would-be clients in the same position as Apple, not just for mail, but contacts, calendar, tasks, file backup, and some of those who claim to have support have an incomplete implementation.
Should Apple and Microsoft have had a more effective joint working group for this: yes, of course.
I don’t really understand Apple’s logic. This is similar to their treatment of iWork and them only really restoring the features people needed so far down the line that many had moved on to another solution. If Mail, Calendar and Contacts become massive friction points people will move to something else and are unlikely to return. I loved iWork, I now use MS Office.
I’ve been using Mailmaven for a while. My only use of Mail is Devonthink, so if that doesn’t work and Devonthink don’t support Mailmaven I may ditch Devonthink which would be a sad knock-on effect.
Does anyone outside of the company understand Apple? Most of what is known about Apple has come from company announcements, discovery from various lawsuits/investigations, and the information that is allowed (IMO) to be leaked to Mark Gruman.
Apple is first and foremost a hardware company, and their software is primarily made for consumers. Everything else, iCloud, App Store, Music, Apple TV steaming, etc. is mainly sold to its hardware customers.
The Mac did not become a general purpose computer until MS released Office for Mac. And if Microsoft was making changes to Microsoft Office that would make it incompatible with the Mac, I’m sure it would be a top priority for Apple to be ready on day one.
So why isn’t Apple ready for this change? I have no clue. Maybe because there are other email apps available for business customers. Maybe because of a prior agreement with Microsoft? Or perhaps Apple just dropped the ball?
Gurman has been reporting on Apple since 2009. I find it hard to believe Apple’s security is so bad they haven’t discovered his source(s) by now.
For email, it kind of makes sense to me. People with Microsoft email would seem to be much, much more likely to be using a Microsoft email client as the Office365 service comes with one. It’s part of the value proposition of Office365. I suspect the number of people using MS email with Apple Mail is a rather small number.
For calendars, that would seem to be a much larger problem as sometimes calendars need to be shared beyond the user’s ecosystem. And were I Apple, that’s where I’d be focusing my efforts.
I replaced our exchange server with a Linux based server around 2002 - 2004 and, with the exception of one individual, never had to deal with an MS email client again. I know Microsoft still offers free email to consumers via Outlook.com, but has it ever offered Exchange to individuals?
I don’t believe so. But I’m still left wondering how many of those freebie emails are using a non-MS client on a Mac. MS offers a free Outlook client, which I know most of us on this forum would run screaming from - but is that the average user? It would be interesting to know the numbers.
I was part of the beta testing program for Graph on Fantastical (as I had issues with the previous protocol working reliably, so they gave me super-early access), and it took months for them to get the protocol working 100% and this was only for the calendar, not email/contacts/tasks that Apple has to get working. I don’t think it’s as easy as we imagine to get this protocol working correctly.
It’s one of the major reasons I keep coming back to Fantastical and Superhuman, they both work perfectly now with this new protocol, while I always found Apple Calendar would not sync reliably with the Office 365 at my workplace.