UPDATE in Fairness to the Developers of Ulysses and others / I've Tried, I Really Have, But I Surrender 😔

[geoffaire]

And even more unfortunately, the version of word on Windows is far more useful than the macOS version.

[WayneG]

And, as of a few years ago, the Mac version of Excel couldn’t run as many add-ins as Excel for Windows. But that was only a problem for less than 2% of my users.

[svsmailus]

@LisaSpangenberg

I don’t code, either. If you ever need to massage text or clean it up to do something else with it, BBEdit has super tools for that, even in the free version. The paid version supports GREP, with the best explanation/guide to using I’ve seen.

I’m in the same boat. BBEdit is awesome at cleaning text. I’ve learnt a little GREP from their inbuilt manual and it’s allowed me to change date formats used in the text, split the text in certain places. It’s also a nice interface, has multiple cursors for when you want to change a list, etc.

[svsmailus]

Please let me know if you think it’s worth the purchase. I’ve been wondering if I should buy it. To those who have a copy how does it benefit the user over the LL manual?

[rms]

@svsmailus

To those who have a copy how does it benefit the user over the LL manual?

Take Control of Scrivener is, as it says upfront in the “Read Me First” section:

This book helps you start writing your masterpiece with Scrivener by showing you how to get the most out of the app’s basic concepts and features.”

The book hasn’t been updated in a while, but frankly I’m not sure that matters now. Perhaps a new version underway for a new version of Scrivener. I don’t know.

The Scrivener Manual says in “About this Manual”:

Although it [The Scrivener Manual] will endeavour to explain features in depth, the Scrivener User Manual is intended as an exhaustive reference, rather than a training tool. The best way to kickstart your use of the software is to take the Interactive Tutorial, located in the Help menu.

My best advice for these two important resources. Read Take Control of Scrivener and skim/speed-read the Scrivener Manual–slowing down for parts that capture your attention and then when needed go back to get an answer or guidance on how to do something. Go back and re-skim both at intervals. Scrivener is an app which gives opportunity for continuous learning for years–those are the kind of apps I use and respect. And, don’t over-worry compiling when getting started! Scrivener is a writing tool first.

More books on Scrivener are listed on Literature & Latte’s web site. But do use the Tutorial and Video’s–both available from the application’s Help menu. And Videos on L&L’s web site. (I think best to avoid random YouTube videos until L&L’s videos are consumed.)

[brookter]

I agree completely! The Manual is excellent, but you do need to have a basic overview of Scrivener’s workflow and what you’re looking for, otherwise it can be overwhelming.

The only thing I’d add for new users (or those wanting to refresh and/or clear some confusion) is ‘Don’t ignore the Tutorial’… It does a fine job of setting out the basic workflows and vocabulary you need to start using Scrivener effectively and a good few of the questions you get on the forums wouldn’t have been necessary if people had done the Tutorial first, instead of just diving in expecting it to be like Word in a party frock (which tends to be the biggest source of initial confusion, in my experience).

[brookter]

I use BBEdit in much the same way. The interface has a couple too many frictions and infelicities to use for day to day writing for me (I’m not a coder) so I use other editors such as IA Writer and DT4 for most of my writing, but when I want to do some heavy textual manipulation, BBEdit comes into its own. The ability to chain successive text manipulation actions into ‘Text Factories’ is very useful, as is the way you can run them on all the files in a directory at once.

I’d say I use about 5% of the features, but that 5% is worth it.

[Tellerman]

When a x hundred pages long user manual is needed to use a writing app, there are something with its overall design…

[brookter]

Breaking news: program which provides extensive range of features in a professional writing toolbox describes what each of those features does professionally in a reference manual designed to supplement more basic training material.

You may have relatively simple specific needs, though those will be different from other people’s ‘simple’ needs, and that doesn’t take into account those who rely on Scrivener for complex workflows, support for many of which (e.g. the Markdown / Latex subsystem) was added because people clamoured for them. A reference manual has to cater for them all.

You’re not forced to read the parts of the manual relating to features you’re not interested in, any more than you need to read the whole of your car’s handbook to find out the tyre pressures.

[svsmailus]

You should have seen my original quarkexpress or Microsoft Word or Windows 3.11 manual. I used to stack them to make a small table or prop open the door. Most OSes and Apps came with massive manuals ‘back in the day’.

Good documentation does not mean it’s a poor application.

[rms]

Showing your age, @svsmailus

Full disclosure. I still have my excellent Word for Windows 2.0 Manual.

[brookter]

The dBase III manuals were a joy to read and a great weight training aid.

[pantulis]

@Daveb08

My ‘simple’ suggestion is find any writing app (Mac/iPad) that suits your needs and syncs using Apple’s CloudKit (the successor to iCloud). If it’s a sync method good enough for DevonThink, then it’s good enough for me. YMMV.

I have to point out that CloudKit is not the successor to iCloud. CloudKit is part of iCloud, along with iCloud Drive and others. An app can sync your data using iCloud Drive or CloudKit, but the latter is more like a cloud database (several of them, as a matter of fact) so it requires a non trivial amount of programming work as opposed to just writing a file in iCloud Drive.

[geoffaire]

Who said it was needed. It’s a resource in case you need it. As someone else has said, it’s not a training manual.

[Bmosbacker]

Give me a few weeks and I will.

[Tellerman]

I agree! The comment was misplaced. Sorry.

[webwalrus]

@brookter

I’d say I use about 5% of the features, but that 5% is worth it.

And the 5% is likely different for you than it is for other users. But at least based on my experience, the 5% I might use doesn’t get in the way of the 5% you might use. There’s a 450-page manual, of which you probably only have to read several dozen pages to learn what you personally need.

[brookter]

No problem!

It’s just that so many developers seems to think that a few videos and a skimpy website is the only documentation you need, that I want to cherish those like Scrivener, BBEdit, DEVONthink etc, who really make the effort to do it properly.

But I probably expressed myself more sharply than I meant – sorry…

[brookter]

Definitely… I’ve never read the entire BBEdit manual, though I have skipped through it a couple of times, my eyes glazing over at esoteric fauna such as Ctags and LSPs (are they infectious?) until I get to the interesting stuff on Emacs integration and grep patterns.

Wasn’t the grep section originally written (mainly) by John Markdown Gruber? I used to use Emacs and Vim for grepping documents, but the way it’s implemented in BBEdit is so convenient I use it instead now.

[Bmosbacker]

@sangadi

@Bmosbacker I think you really need a version control system in your work flow. The sync issues you have can be eliminated by adding this to your workflow.

1. Get yourself a private GitHub repository.
2. Upload your contents at the end of each day or each week or even at critical points. It can be even every hour or as and when you please.

I’ve only perused GitHub, but it has always struck me as very geeky. I’ll give it a more careful look. Can it serve as another form of "backup”? I currently back up to two external drives, one at the office and one at home. I’m always looking to bolster my backup regimen.