Update:I am very disappointed to see that someone flagged my original post as being inappropriate and that it was hidden as a result. I don’t think I have said anything that is inappropriate or amiss in it. @ismh even responded to it and said he appreciated the feedback. I stand by my post, which was a natural and genuine reaction to the sudden disappearance of the most active member of this community, and am not changing a word of it. In fact, it is policing the views of people and flagging posts/opinions one doesn’t like as “inappropriate” that goes against the spirit of this community. I hope that the moderators consider taking action against members who abuse their privilege to flag posts.
I’ve not been very active here over the past few weeks and just realised today, after noticing that @bowline has been uncharacteristically quiet for a while, that he has been suspended for “being argumentative.”
I tried to look for the thread/s that might have resulted in the suspension but couldn’t find anything. The closest I came to was this thread, but even that is innocuous and I find it hard to believe that anyone could be suspended for the mild back-and-forth on it. I can think of far more brusque exchanges, often featuring the same handful of cantankerous users (), not being reprimanded.
@bowline has been the most active member here by a long shot and has made literally thousands of insightful, authoritative posts. I have always marvelled at the breadth and depth of his knowledge, not just limited to all things Apple, and have routinely seen him go out of his way to help members on this forum. His suspension seems harsh, unfair and unwarranted and is bound to be to the detriment of our community. I hope @ismh/@MacSparky/@RosemaryOrchard see this and that @bowline will be back soon.
He is being informative and authoritative. The former is greatly appreciated but the later is not.
I have been personally attacked in this thread repeatedly.
While suspension is harsh, but I don’t think it’s unwarranted. This forum needs civil discussions, not someone judgemental and authoritative in my opinion.
The worst of it has almost certainly been deleted / cleaned off.
I agree that he was valuable when he was contributing knowledge. I also agree with @SuperTachyon about the “authoritative” thing.
Here’s a random example from another post:
The background is that I’d shared something that I rather vividly recall happening a few times, although I couldn’t cite an example. He demanded hard proof. I obviously didn’t have any, so he insisted I was misremembering, and that the thing I remembered never happened.
And ended by utilizing the rather offensive phrasing below.
Linked so you can feel free to go read the whole thread if you like.
I’ve not been active recently on the forum neither. I only found his account suspended until your post. He was a very active member of MPU and can always provided some useful info. I always feel amazed how many things he knows. Indeed, he sometimes kept arguing with other members. But considering his merits and demerits, he should stay. My personal opinion, account suspension for a week or something should be reasonable, like a warn. Suspension forever? Really?
That decision should be taken by moderators and we should all respect what moderators decide on their platform to keep it as respectfully and clean as possible.
If the decision has been taken in silence it’s probably because the moderators did not want to make it a public affair out of respect for everyone. It should probably remain as such.
Nope. There is no good reason for deleting threads. Especially not here, where discussions are all extremely polite compared to other forums. Deleting threads - with the exception of threads that are against the law and/or harmful to people - is a form of censorship. This forum doesn’t need that.
N.B. This is a general remark. I have no idea - nor am I interested to know - if any threads have been deleted.
So nobody here can say exactly what happened and so we should collectively refrain from making suppositions on a decision taken by the caretakers of the place. Who have already answered (see above).
As well as refraining from debating the personality of the person involved, in whatever direction.
I said delisted, not deleted. Delisting is removing from search and listings. Deleting is removing the content altogether.
Granted, that’s close to the same thing, but in any case, if the moderators, who keep this place friendly, deem it necessary, maybe it’s friendly because they’re doing just what the place needs to keep it that way.
Moderation on a forum is not censorship. Censorship is perpetuated by a State. On the Internet, nobody prevents you from going elsewhere. It’s like being banned from a bar because your behavior doesn’t fit the place. The owners have final say. You can always go to another bar.
Moderation can be necessary at times. I know that from being a moderator / admin for a forum for over 10 years. On MPU though it have a feeling that there is no room to disagree (with whatever). That’s a pity. The people on this forum are - in general - well-behaved, eloquent, and intelligent. Really. Everything that is perceived as being “offensive” here, is in reality just a polite disagreement.
Please, don’t let the moderators kill this forum by being excessively sensitive.
Well, I couldn’t disagree more. I view this forum is alive and well especially because the utmost care is being taken into making sure that it remains open, friendly and welcoming and I’m grateful to the moderators for keeping such a close eye on things.
No subject is banned, there’s nothing off limits, members are free to criticise the hosts, subjects and tone of the podcasts to our heart’s content as long as it remains absolutely civil. There’s countless examples of that. I don’t see any sign the forum is in danger of dying. We’re just asked to keep our cool.
Well. That’s probably true for most but not in this case. In a single thread, I have been called out being “simplistic”, “naive” and “ignorance” about a subject I did a lot of research into, just because he disagreed with my opinion.
I would suggest that “I disagree” is a polite and well-spoken way to disagree, whereas calling a claim BS - in any way - is quite impolite, almost by definition.
FWIW, I know we definitely have at least one teenager on here. I get my guidance on language from the FAQ (FAQ - MPU Talk):
Keep it clean. Don’t post anything obscene or sexually explicit.
…
These are not concrete terms with precise definitions — avoid even the appearance of any of these things.
…
Keep the language, links, and images safe for family and friends.
Personally, I try to be more careful with language here than I might otherwise, because I just operate under the assumption that there are potentially younger people that might be popping in.
), not being reprimanded.