Systems vs. Apps

There are three different current threads all closely related:

1 - Field Guide for Picking Apps and Sticking With Them
2 - Too Many Apps Reduce Productivity
3 - Time to Rip Off the Evernote Bandaid

Instead of pasting the same response in each one and having the discussion spread out, I thought I would respond to them here in one place, as I think the answer for each is the same: you don’t need new apps, or less apps, or different apps (necessarily) - you need a better system.

Yes, I know, we tend to switch systems as frequently as we do apps, but I’ve found what feels like a great ‘master’ system. Specifically, it is Tiago Forte’s ‘Building a Second Brain’ system. More info:

Summary/overview

Excellent sketchnote/visual guide/overview:

I found the PARA approach to organizing very instructive and helpful. And it is designed to work in any app, as detailed here:

The PARA method

Tiago uses evernote, the last I heard, but I have found an excellent implementation/template for the system using Notion.so - my current app of choice:

How To Build a Second Brain in Notion

So - hope that helps. I also hope that making a separate thread doesn’t upset any one - just trying to simplify, that’s all :slight_smile:

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Neat concept and useful resources. Thanks!

Can I ask: what are the kinds of use cases you employ with this in the run of a week? Like, how does it get used—outside of capturing info in it?

I have a pretty satisfying system for keeping everything organized, but I wonder if there’s sometimes utility I’m missing in drawing on that organization.

In the sketchnote link (above) Parts IV and V deal with progressive summarisation and retrieving/using the information previously captured.

I’m still mainly in the capture phase. I’ve imported all my old Evernote notes and Trello boards, haven’t done the Google docs and all my writing files (Markdown for blog posts, misc. text files for lots of other projects) because I’m still getting the PARA system set up. So I don’t have a track record with it yet, it just resonated with me. Also, keep in mind that I’m retired so this is for all my personal stuff, nothing related to an office or w*rk. :slight_smile:

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I wouldn’t worry about missing anything. I’ll find a tool when I start to feel some friction in a workflow or I need to find a solution to an event that pops up. Otherwise, don’t try to find a solution for a problem you don’t have.

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I agree with your focus on systems-design, rather than building around tools. I recently posted this in the “Evernote Bandaid” thread:

I think the key to good systems is deciding what we want from the information we are collecting. We already know there is something about the information we want to have access to “forever.” To improve future accessibility and the ability to extract the important insights from that information, the focus should not be on the act of keeping it but on the why we want to keep it. Systems built to maximize our ability to do the things that come out of answers to that why question, enable us to synthesize and make better use of this information we are keeping.

NB: If this comes off as a little too abstract, let me know and I’ll work to clarify it. I was trying to be practical (not philosophical), but I didn’t want to bog readers down with specific examples that matter to me but that might not be relevant to their needs.

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Yes! I’m so glad to see someone else here using PARA. I have been a die-hard follower for the past 2.5 years now since I first took the Building a Second Brain. I think Tiago would be a wonderful guest for MPU sometime too!

Anyways, I do think that the system is way more important than the apps as far as I am concerned.

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I just read this PARA article, which I think is excellent. The system I employ for myself lines up pretty well in line with this methodology.

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This looks really useful. I wish I didn’t see this right before bed, because now my brain won’t stop thinking about it.

Would love to take that class, it might be too expensive to justify at the moment.

Do you have any concerns with building something like this in a proprietary app like Notion?

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Good question. Most people don’t have issues using Evernote, also proprietary. But some really do prefer text-only solutions. Here is a long discussion from someone who uses the Zettelkasten system moving from the text-based ‘The Archive’ software on MacOS to Notion.so

It looks like you can export your workspace which will come out in CSV for tables and Markdown or HTML for everything else. Not sure how much of the folder/heirarchy would be lost…

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I think this sometimes works. Problem is, sometimes you don’t know you have a “problem”. Most of the complex problems I study/work with aren’t visible, requiring framing to discover them. This is especially true if the problem is one preventing thriving (as opposed to problems of immediate survival, which are usually obvious). I think productivity systems are a perfect example of this.

Dramatic, off-topic example: climate change. Burning dinosaur bones was a great “system” for decades until we noticed how devastating it is.

Less tangential: everything buckets. People thought the drop-it-in-Evernote approach was great until they realized they weren’t actually doing anything with the stuff they had in Evernote (e.g., Evernote as “write-only”, as discussed on the “Optimizing your GTD System” episode of the Getting Things Done podcast.).

So, my goal is to be as intentional about system-building as early as possible, so that the benefits compound over time (rather than have diminishing returns with additional investment).

A few mechanisms that demonstrate this idea:

  • my DEVONthink autotagging tools have helped me build up a useful record of readings on different subjects that are easily drawn on and shared with others without having to think about those tags when capturing a new resource.
  • I have set up a few smart views to show me the files I was looking at a month ago and a year ago (etc.) so that I have a sort-of dragnet pulled behind me reminding me of the things that have fallen out of vogue.

Nonetheless, I’d love to find more creative ways of engaging these tools for growth over time! Hence my curiosity about how other people take advantage of their systems as they grow.

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Hey,

I’ve seen in the forum that you are a fan of BASB by Tiago Forte.

If you have purchased the premium edition of his course, could you please give your opinion on whether you think it is worth the cost over the standard edition? It’s mostly the Nerve Bundle that piques my interest, the advanced tutorials less so.

Also, have you found the forum to be active?

I’m in the beginning process of going through a rigours online course on launching an online business and so I’m looking for a system to manage all the notes, information and workflows involved.

Thanks

Beresford

Sorry for the delay. Did you make any decision for yourself on this? I didn’t have premium version, and while I like the nerve bundle, in all honesty. I don’t use it much. The basic course was really the main thing that really transformed my way of thinking and working. I’m happy to talk more about it if you have anymore questions.

-Wess

Hi,

No worries, I did purchase the course and just finished Unit 6 of 8. It’s amazing, one of the best decisions I’ve ever made.

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I’m glad this thread go resurrected lately and I stumbled across it this morning.

I’ve used Evernote. Then I started putting files into the Mac file system and using Apple Notes for notes. But it’s all just a dumping ground. I’ve also found myself thinking I needed a second brain. There has to be a better way to organize this stuff.

I have been interested in The Sweet Setup’s Ulysses course to see if that could help me organize a lot of things. But that still comes up short.

Where all this becomes intriguing is the purpose of using this information. I’ve got a personal project in front of me. I’ve learned a bunch of things and I continue to find resources and I’ve dug up those resources to execute things. As a side note, I just got a new computer so I’ve been cleaning things up. And something has to change.

So I’m back to this second brain concept and PARA and finding a system that would work (possibly Notion.)

My current project would be a great thing to try this on.

As I look at Notion, I see some value but I also use Omnifocus for tasks and I can’t see getting away from that. And I use Airtable but not as a CRM. I could easily shift to Notion for a database. But I’m wondering if using Notion as a CRM is overkill as I just put contacts into the Contacts app. I know it may not make sense to put yet to be important people in my Contacts app but I worry about having some people in one place and others in another place.

So, I’m not really asking a question but mainly writing out loud as I consider BASB, PARA, and Notion.

I would obviously be ecstatic about thoughts.

Lastly, unfortunately, I can’t afford the BASB course at this time.

I use Notion for BASB, however, it would work better with Evernote and the course uses Evernote during its walkthroughs and examples. If you like Evernote, it would not require you to re-learn a new tool.

When you have the funds, I’d invest in the course based on your pain points. Tiago Forte did mention in the past week on Twitter that the price would increase next year so if you get it, I’d get it soon.

Took me a week of research before purchasing the course but so glad I did. Never was satisfied with my note taking habits and project/task management but his holistic system is worth it. I’ve got more work done in the past 10 days since purchasing it than I would typically do in over a month.

There is a PRODCON discount for 100 dollars off somewhere I found on the internet.

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Last week he announced he was about to close enrollment in the course and when it reopens next year the price will rise from the current $499 to $799. Then he did it; enrollment is currently closed.

I think Notion is a clver and attractive personal wiki app, and can be manipulated into doing many things, But I think it would be a clunky CRM and require a lot more housekeeping than a real CRM app. Googling ‘airtable crm’ and ‘evernote crm’ might give you ideas so you don’t have to use (and manage) a 3rd app.

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After I posted, I was thinking that one thing maybe this is leading me towards is some sort of personal wiki. So that’s maybe why Notion intrigues me. But I feel like I wouldn’t use other features. Would it still be worth it? Maybe. But I did see a comment in the Notion thread about Notebooks. That also has me intrigued and more dedicated towards my needs.

This is not to say that I don’t find BASB and PARA intriguing but while I was reading a bunch of stuff last night and watching some videos, there’s a whole mindset to it and I worry I can’t commit to it right now.

I was unfollowing @NotionHQ on Twitter (trying to prune the follow list) and saw this show up:

Kai Davis has built the ultimate productivity system, combining elements of:

  • SCRUM
  • Personal Kanban
  • PARA
  • Getting Things Done

He calls it his Notion Battleboard :crossed_swords: and he’s teaching how to build it on Office Hours at 10 am PST tomorrow: https://www.crowdcast.io/e/battleboard/register

I haven’t watched it yet, but it looks to be relevant to this conversation.